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[Music]

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hello and welcome to the show on Martin

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Willis your host and this is a place you

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can go to escape the daily news I hope

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you all all the listeners are out there

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are safe and healthy and if you're not

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we're thinking of you and again we got a

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couple hours

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hediye here near two hours that is and

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the guest tonight is Ray Osmanski I

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probably pronouncing that right I'm

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trying I'm really trying anyway he is

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interesting person we were actually

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going to meet out at contact at in the

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desert which of course is rescheduled

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for I believe they're going right into

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2021 they're rescheduling it for that

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time same for all of a lot of the UFO

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conferences I know that I've spoke with

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Alejandro Rojas the other day and the

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International UFO Congress is the first

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week I believe of September and they at

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this point they haven't cancelled that

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yet it's still it's still on you know

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they will cancel it if they have to but

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as of right now that is still scheduled

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we see what what the next several months

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bring so tonight our guest as I said is

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Ray Smith I'm going to try one more time

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there you are ray welcome to this show

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right hey thanks for having me Mike

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don't worry people have struggled over

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that name for centuries centuries even

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in Poland right absolutely yeah ray

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before we get well let's let's talk a

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little bit about your background could

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you please first fill us in with your

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background and then we'll go from there

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born and raised in Detroit and went to

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University of Detroit got a bachelor's

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of science and electrical and

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electronics engineering went to work for

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the air force in January of 1973 as a

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cooperative education student

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and I work there until my retirement the

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last day of September in 2011 so

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actually my career spanned 38 years and

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nine months and five separate decades oh

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wow

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and we you that were you there right the

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wright-patterson the entire time

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absolutely I worked I was actually

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assigned to the laboratory air force

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research labs no it was their

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predecessors before they became a or

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Pharrell and Congress wanted to roll all

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the labs into one but I work for the

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predecessor called avionics lab which

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eventually became the sensors

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Directorate and I had spent time on loan

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to different organizations so even

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though I was there at AFRL and my billet

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as it were was at wright-patterson at

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one time I spent 10 years working for a

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program for the Undersecretary of

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Defense for research and engineering out

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of the Pentagon and I'd fly there

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monthly to do reviews again all my

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programs and all my money were being

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massaged than managed at

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wright-patterson and then I did a

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two-year stint as the Wellness director

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for wright-patterson Air Force Base and

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I was responsible for the health and

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wellness of 12,000 civilian employees

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and then for three years I was the AFRL

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wellness director so I was loaned out a

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executive loan program on a number of

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occasions but stationed at

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wright-patterson that entire time Wow

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and your your interests are I listen to

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I just write I did I do not have your

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book first of all you have two books and

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they each start out with a similar title

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right is that right yes originally it

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was called a series was called 50 shades

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of Gray's which was a play on words yeah

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and then I wanted to make the titles a

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little bit more in line with the actual

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content so just within the last several

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months

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I changed the the title to alien shades

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of Gray's but the first book is

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subtitled

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of extraterrestrial visitation to

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wright-patterson Air Force Base and

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beyond and we can get into a description

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of that later than the follow-on book

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which was released about a year ago this

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time is Victoria's Secret truth and

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that's a story of three generations of

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alien contact well and how long have you

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had an interest in in this topic

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actually my very first week reporting

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the wright-patterson Air Force Base as a

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co-op student now you can imagine I'm 19

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years old I'm kind of scientifically

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focused I'm assigned to an office and

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they assigned me a mentor he's a

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mid-level civilian so this is he's

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probably a GS 11 and there were three

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buildings they composed one large

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building but there were two-story

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executive offices and in the middle was

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a huge hangar

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you know informally with airplanes and

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people you know doing that sort of thing

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and my mentor says to me this is January

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1973 he said we're gonna cut through

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that empty building and we're going to

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buy you a candy bar kind of a welcoming

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gift so we stepped down into this hangar

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and he turns to me and he kind of

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casually says have you heard about our

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aliens now you know the the the

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two-story buildings that were the

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bookends of the large complex were kind

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of nice you know for government

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buildings though we step into this dark

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unused hangar and his he's huge you know

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super thick curtains on him and it's

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very dark in this guy that I only know

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for a week turns to me and says have you

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heard about our aliens so I'm kind of

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like whoa so it's a 200 foot long walk

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you know to get to the other side and he

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starts telling me about this crash out

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west and how it had a machine that had

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occupants and they were brought here to

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wright-patterson and you know that's

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where the conversation left by the time

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we got into the greasy spoon which is

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where we got the candy bar and that was

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like my baptism into wright-patterson

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accent to this whole alien thing so it's

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been a long time ago now was he was he

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was he really like just trying to bust

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your chops

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you know because you renew or Oh what do

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you what did you get what were your

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feelings right off the bat did you think

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this guy is just you know you know just

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kind of trying to break me in and you

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know haze me a little bit because I just

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started you know what were your thoughts

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I think a little bit of that but at the

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time you know this was 1973 Project Blue

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Book had been there for 22 years along

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with its predecessor sign and grudge so

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you know the history of wright-patterson

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hosting Project Blue Book was well known

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there was the TV show a lot of focus was

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put on that project by the local press

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the media television in other work Roos

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always trying to come out to do you know

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little bits for the news so it was very

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well known that connection was well very

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very well known so I think it was kind

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of something that they were proud of

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that you know had international fame so

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that story you know that connection

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helps elevate everybody and then again I

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I think it was a topic that many of them

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were interested in Al was an

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intellectual and in fact you know

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there's Jesus like grade 1 to grade 15

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if you get congressional approval you

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get to become a civilian at the flag

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rank so you're the equivalent of a

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general or an admiral believe it or not

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l went on to become a member of the SES

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so when he retired and he had worked for

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many years at that level he was actually

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the level of a flag officer so this was

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not a dummy guy that was telling me

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about this so I didn't know he was going

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to eventually attain the highest rank

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that you could ever attain as a civilian

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but it kind of tells me in retrospect

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that you know the guy was thinking about

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it he was an intellectual and you know

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those are the kinds of things that they

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talked about around the water cooler

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yeah

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now if they were in fact you know aliens

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there first of all

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that would be something that would be

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surely classified and that this is what

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I'm just getting out you know when you

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talk about a conversation like this

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that's why I asked you you know was he

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busting your chops you know over at the

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back but this this type of information

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would definitely be classified and you

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know would not be able to be you know he

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would not be able to talk to you about

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it if if he had was told this is

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classified top secret you can't you know

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discuss this so so what did you think

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well I think now that he was a mid-level

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engineer he and a lot of the guys that I

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eventually wound up talking to like Doug

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and accounting and all those guys had

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you know he regularly lunched with and

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they kind of Jew me in under their wing

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I think it was a topic that they were

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interested in the connection was very

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very well known I don't think any of

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them were ever read into the program

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obviously because that was not the type

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of office we were more of a you know

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management kind of computer support

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office that very first session that I

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was there so I'm thinking that those

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guys were very interested they were

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soaking up all the news they were

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probably reading the books and that sort

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of thing but I think very few people on

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the base would have it actually at

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hands-on knowledge of what was really

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going on there right right in

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I'm sure the the topic Roswell didn't

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come up as far as you know I mean a

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crash out west something like that I

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understand but you know that that topic

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was kind of I don't want to I want to

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say more or less obscured for many years

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until Stan Friedman back in 1978 I think

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it was was it 78 I can't really remember

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when it was yeah I think you got Marcel

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to talk in seven yeah yeah but I mean in

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between you know Roswell kind of faded

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away real quickly right after the

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incident itself when it was passed off

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as you know weather balloon and just

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people kind of moved on from there of

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course there were a lot of UFO sightings

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right after that but still that was kind

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of obscure for many years did the word

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Roswell ever come up before 1978 that

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you're aware of you know

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I would say no and the way to check is

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by a copy of my book and read it and

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you'll find out that I don't believe I

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mentioned Roswell in the book I believe

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the quote that I remember is as he said

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that there was a crash out west now

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here's what I did you know my you know

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there are moments in your life where

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like you almost get into an auto wreck

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or you know the birth of your first

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child or whatever it is there's moments

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that you don't really forget and you may

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be a little hazy on some of the details

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but the core story is gonna stay with

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you so I found Al and I communicated

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with him he suggested I write him a

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letter and I did and I what I wrote him

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in the letter was my recollection of our

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conversation that day and L got the

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letter and I said L I'm thinking I'm

272
00:12:29,150 --> 00:12:25,980
gonna write a book but and I want to put

273
00:12:33,110 --> 00:12:29,160
this in there so you are free to adjust

274
00:12:35,150 --> 00:12:33,120
anything you want anything and and if

275
00:12:38,890 --> 00:12:35,160
it's reasonable if your recollection is

276
00:12:43,310 --> 00:12:38,900
strong I'm gonna make the changes well

277
00:12:45,860 --> 00:12:43,320
he sent what I sent him he sent my

278
00:12:49,430 --> 00:12:45,870
letter back to him and he wrote a thing

279
00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:49,440
and he says you know Ray as you know I

280
00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:52,890
retired as a flag level civilian and I

281
00:13:01,010 --> 00:12:56,250
can't allow you to use my last name and

282
00:13:03,770 --> 00:13:01,020
any changes are in the text thank you

283
00:13:05,900 --> 00:13:03,780
for for you know remembering and I went

284
00:13:08,030 --> 00:13:05,910
to the sheets of paper I think was maybe

285
00:13:10,790 --> 00:13:08,040
three three and a half and the only

286
00:13:13,490 --> 00:13:10,800
place he made a change is he wrote in

287
00:13:15,830 --> 00:13:13,500
there and I said something about the

288
00:13:17,810 --> 00:13:15,840
aliens in the records and he said I can

289
00:13:20,990 --> 00:13:17,820
neither confirm nor deny that there were

290
00:13:25,330 --> 00:13:21,000
aliens that's the only substantial

291
00:13:27,890 --> 00:13:25,340
change he made to the entire dialogue so

292
00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:27,900
and he's a pretty thorough guy he had to

293
00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:29,730
be he was a member of the senior

294
00:13:34,310 --> 00:13:32,370
executive service he was he was you know

295
00:13:36,980 --> 00:13:34,320
those guys make big decisions all the

296
00:13:38,660 --> 00:13:36,990
time so I think he gave a careful

297
00:13:41,090 --> 00:13:38,670
consideration and his recollection was

298
00:13:44,340 --> 00:13:41,100
as as good as mine and he only made that

299
00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:44,350
change and so you know I have that as my

300
00:13:49,350 --> 00:13:47,050
physical evidence of my communication

301
00:13:50,970 --> 00:13:49,360
with him on that topic but again there

302
00:13:53,070 --> 00:13:50,980
was never a mention of Roswell it was

303
00:13:55,650 --> 00:13:53,080
like there was a crash out west and

304
00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:55,660
that's the way I wrote it up yeah yeah

305
00:13:58,520 --> 00:13:57,490
and that's that's good that's good to

306
00:14:04,560 --> 00:13:58,530
hear

307
00:14:07,050 --> 00:14:04,570
so when you worked there and you did you

308
00:14:09,270 --> 00:14:07,060
just go do you remember like what type

309
00:14:11,730 --> 00:14:09,280
of impact that had on you is this

310
00:14:14,190 --> 00:14:11,740
something you just kind of tabled and

311
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:14,200
then maybe discussed it with people

312
00:14:20,010 --> 00:14:17,730
later on how did that go well I

313
00:14:23,220 --> 00:14:20,020
initially wanted to check out al because

314
00:14:25,590 --> 00:14:23,230
al yeah I almost I want to say a loose

315
00:14:28,620 --> 00:14:25,600
cannon you know he was his own guy and

316
00:14:30,540 --> 00:14:28,630
you know he didn't he didn't dress the

317
00:14:32,130 --> 00:14:30,550
part like a lot of people did he did

318
00:14:34,380 --> 00:14:32,140
crazy things like he showed up every day

319
00:14:36,420 --> 00:14:34,390
with a briefcase and the only thing he

320
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:36,430
had in this briefcase was a sandwich for

321
00:14:41,190 --> 00:14:39,490
lunch but he wanted to look the part I

322
00:14:44,220 --> 00:14:41,200
never would laughter there goes hell

323
00:14:45,630 --> 00:14:44,230
with his briefcase and so I found out

324
00:14:47,340 --> 00:14:45,640
you know who was lunching with and once

325
00:14:49,170 --> 00:14:47,350
in a while he didn't invite me in and we

326
00:14:51,390 --> 00:14:49,180
go to a place called the airway in

327
00:14:53,190 --> 00:14:51,400
across from the base and there was dug

328
00:14:55,380 --> 00:14:53,200
and and I could unsee another guy with

329
00:14:57,150 --> 00:14:55,390
dark hair whose name I can't remember I

330
00:14:59,550 --> 00:14:57,160
know what city lives in but there be a

331
00:15:01,830 --> 00:14:59,560
handful of folks and when L wasn't there

332
00:15:02,940 --> 00:15:01,840
I would drop by and go hey does like you

333
00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:02,950
know it all told me this thing about

334
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:05,170
this crass in UFOs and Doug would go

335
00:15:11,790 --> 00:15:09,130
yeah like of course and and I never got

336
00:15:15,990 --> 00:15:11,800
any pushback on it I got like everybody

337
00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:16,000
had this nice easy knowledge that this

338
00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:19,570
was part of base history and they just

339
00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:21,370
accepted it or they might go hey you

340
00:15:25,830 --> 00:15:23,170
know there's gonna be a new documentary

341
00:15:27,540 --> 00:15:25,840
on or a TV show or go you know I've read

342
00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:27,550
this book or you know they might share

343
00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:30,130
books amongst them so the handful of

344
00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:33,490
people I asked at least then you know

345
00:15:36,870 --> 00:15:35,050
satisfied me that there was something to

346
00:15:38,850 --> 00:15:36,880
it but you can imagine you know I'm at

347
00:15:41,190 --> 00:15:38,860
college I I'm an electrical engineering

348
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:41,200
this is not a pushover you know English

349
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:45,370
major course courses so it really never

350
00:15:49,620 --> 00:15:48,130
became a focus and I might ask you know

351
00:15:50,820 --> 00:15:49,630
I got involved in sports on the base

352
00:15:52,980 --> 00:15:50,830
softball and basketball and volleyball

353
00:15:55,410 --> 00:15:52,990
and that sort of thing I might ask my

354
00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:55,420
teammates occasionally you know what's

355
00:15:58,150 --> 00:15:57,490
this you know UFO thing and then of

356
00:16:00,610 --> 00:15:58,160
course

357
00:16:04,150 --> 00:16:00,620
you know in the late 70s a Stantons book

358
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:04,160
hit the fan and you know by the early

359
00:16:09,939 --> 00:16:07,610
80s it was like look at see you know we

360
00:16:14,290 --> 00:16:09,949
told you but again it really didn't

361
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:14,300
become all-consuming for me until the

362
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:16,610
Phoenix lights oh okay

363
00:16:21,699 --> 00:16:19,370
before we get into that I always I

364
00:16:23,439 --> 00:16:21,709
always forget that we we do have a lot

365
00:16:27,660 --> 00:16:23,449
of new listeners to the show I get

366
00:16:30,699 --> 00:16:27,670
enough email to to know that for sure so

367
00:16:34,210 --> 00:16:30,709
people are going to may wonder what is

368
00:16:42,340 --> 00:16:34,220
the connection between Roswell and right

369
00:16:45,670 --> 00:16:42,350
path okay the connection definitely well

370
00:16:48,009 --> 00:16:45,680
the connection is is that Jesse Marcel

371
00:16:53,879 --> 00:16:48,019
was a major and he was an intelligence

372
00:16:58,749 --> 00:16:53,889
officer at Roswell and they sent him and

373
00:17:02,319 --> 00:16:58,759
another intelligence officer with the

374
00:17:05,380 --> 00:17:02,329
rancher Mac Brazel and they sent those

375
00:17:08,949 --> 00:17:05,390
two up with Brazel to retrieve the

376
00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:08,959
crashed material whatever it was they

377
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:10,850
brought it back they looked at at

378
00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:13,970
Colonel Blanchard was the commander of

379
00:17:19,630 --> 00:17:17,089
Roswell and then he told Walter Haut who

380
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:19,640
is his public information officer we've

381
00:17:25,659 --> 00:17:22,250
got a crash flying disc and walter haut

382
00:17:29,500 --> 00:17:25,669
then gave it to the roswell newspaper

383
00:17:31,060 --> 00:17:29,510
that the Air Force had this UFO well the

384
00:17:32,799 --> 00:17:31,070
next day they change their story and

385
00:17:35,649 --> 00:17:32,809
they said it was just a craft weather

386
00:17:39,090 --> 00:17:35,659
balloon now fast forward 29 years later

387
00:17:41,919 --> 00:17:39,100
and Stanford Friedman gets connected

388
00:17:44,980 --> 00:17:41,929
through friends of Jesse Marcel's with

389
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:44,990
Jesse interviews him and Jesse says

390
00:17:51,820 --> 00:17:49,610
things like it wasn't this planet we

391
00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:51,830
tested it it was no material that I know

392
00:17:58,020 --> 00:17:54,770
and it was flown to wright-patterson Air

393
00:18:01,720 --> 00:17:58,030
Force Base for inspection

394
00:18:03,940 --> 00:18:01,730
then you had the chief of staff who was

395
00:18:07,810 --> 00:18:03,950
a general up at the 8th Army Air Corps

396
00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:07,820
now that was in Fort Worth and he was in

397
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:10,400
the office into it Jesse flew those

398
00:18:14,470 --> 00:18:11,810
materials

399
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:14,480
after the discovery and this general

400
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:19,610
said that material was flown on a plane

401
00:18:24,310 --> 00:18:21,410
the gentleman Mullen element Mullen was

402
00:18:26,230 --> 00:18:24,320
chief of staff some went to write pad

403
00:18:27,970 --> 00:18:26,240
somewhat to mean mala went mad Mullen

404
00:18:30,150 --> 00:18:27,980
was done with that his private plane

405
00:18:33,060 --> 00:18:30,160
took the rest of at the right pad so

406
00:18:35,500 --> 00:18:33,070
what do we know that it's immutable

407
00:18:37,570 --> 00:18:35,510
whatever the material was it went to

408
00:18:40,300 --> 00:18:37,580
wright-patterson and the reason it did

409
00:18:41,890 --> 00:18:40,310
is the materials Directorate was at

410
00:18:45,310 --> 00:18:41,900
wright-patterson Air Force Base that was

411
00:18:46,810 --> 00:18:45,320
the world class group of scientists who

412
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:46,820
knew anything and everything about

413
00:18:53,380 --> 00:18:51,050
aerospace materials that laboratory had

414
00:18:56,650 --> 00:18:53,390
been set up in 1917 at wright-patterson

415
00:18:59,530 --> 00:18:56,660
so by 1947 they had 30 years of

416
00:19:01,330 --> 00:18:59,540
experience it would have been the place

417
00:19:03,580 --> 00:19:01,340
to go so the guys who handled the

418
00:19:06,250 --> 00:19:03,590
material the guy who was responsible for

419
00:19:08,010 --> 00:19:06,260
getting it transported all said it went

420
00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:08,020
to wright-patterson Air Force Base I

421
00:19:12,670 --> 00:19:10,130
think and that's the connection

422
00:19:15,730 --> 00:19:12,680
yeah you know one thing that I just

423
00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:15,740
thought of only thought of just now but

424
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:19,130
um you know when they published in the

425
00:19:26,740 --> 00:19:23,570
the paper that the Army Air Force had

426
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:26,750
captured a flying disc but when you when

427
00:19:29,740 --> 00:19:28,730
they talk about when anyone at all talks

428
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:29,750
about the wreckage

429
00:19:34,420 --> 00:19:32,330
it certainly doesn't sound like a disc

430
00:19:37,210 --> 00:19:34,430
at all it sounds like fields of debris

431
00:19:39,820 --> 00:19:37,220
you know maybe they're assuming that it

432
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:39,830
was a flying disc that burst into this

433
00:19:45,910 --> 00:19:42,770
field of debris but I don't know I just

434
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:45,920
thought of that because that's all you

435
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:47,930
ever hear about the crash site it was

436
00:19:54,790 --> 00:19:51,770
just like you know a hundred yards of or

437
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:54,800
more of debris just scattered around

438
00:20:00,730 --> 00:19:56,810
they never as far as it was they never

439
00:20:06,670 --> 00:20:00,740
really captured any disc-like objects

440
00:20:10,780 --> 00:20:06,680
out of that debris III hear you and the

441
00:20:14,620 --> 00:20:10,790
debris was scattered about a half mile

442
00:20:18,070 --> 00:20:14,630
long Oh half mile and a half mile and

443
00:20:22,810 --> 00:20:18,080
and and and you know a thousand feet

444
00:20:25,210 --> 00:20:22,820
wide and the witnesses Marcel said it

445
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:25,220
didn't look like an object had hit the

446
00:20:28,180 --> 00:20:25,610
ground

447
00:20:30,670 --> 00:20:28,190
been dragged and and and and when it's a

448
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:30,680
piece says it looked like something

449
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:32,690
exploded in the air and then fluttered

450
00:20:37,150 --> 00:20:34,610
down because that's just the way the

451
00:20:39,190 --> 00:20:37,160
debris was scattered on the other side

452
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:39,200
there are witness who say well there

453
00:20:43,180 --> 00:20:41,210
were sticks and whatever then you

454
00:20:46,330 --> 00:20:43,190
flip-flop again the guys who are

455
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:46,340
supposedly hand on witnesses like Marcel

456
00:20:51,220 --> 00:20:49,610
said we couldn't terror it we couldn't

457
00:20:53,410 --> 00:20:51,230
bend it we couldn't burn it we hit it

458
00:20:55,030 --> 00:20:53,420
with a sledgehammer we crushed it it

459
00:20:57,430 --> 00:20:55,040
came back like today's mitten all

460
00:21:00,660 --> 00:20:57,440
material would do so it exhibited

461
00:21:04,030 --> 00:21:00,670
properties that were not consistent with

462
00:21:07,570 --> 00:21:04,040
the weather balloon explanation so

463
00:21:11,170 --> 00:21:07,580
you've got you've got data on both sides

464
00:21:13,420 --> 00:21:11,180
that doesn't jibe but you also have

465
00:21:17,710 --> 00:21:13,430
enough data on the side of a crashed

466
00:21:21,100 --> 00:21:17,720
object that makes it possible also there

467
00:21:22,690 --> 00:21:21,110
was a story floating around and and you

468
00:21:24,850 --> 00:21:22,700
know you don't hear this all the time as

469
00:21:27,310 --> 00:21:24,860
part of these story but something like

470
00:21:29,260 --> 00:21:27,320
60 miles away or something like that was

471
00:21:31,990 --> 00:21:29,270
another object that they thought

472
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:32,000
possibly was related to this that was

473
00:21:38,140 --> 00:21:35,650
found like the size of a Volkswagen bug

474
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:38,150
these are just things that I remember

475
00:21:45,660 --> 00:21:42,650
and the bodies supposedly were there and

476
00:21:48,430 --> 00:21:45,670
you know I believe Stanton Friedman

477
00:21:51,100 --> 00:21:48,440
thought that that could have meant that

478
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:51,110
it was a mid-air crash between two

479
00:21:56,620 --> 00:21:54,410
vehicles I believe those were you know

480
00:21:59,680 --> 00:21:56,630
I'm paraphrasing but something that he

481
00:22:01,950 --> 00:21:59,690
he believed that was about it's

482
00:22:07,330 --> 00:22:01,960
confusing you know as the years go by

483
00:22:09,910 --> 00:22:07,340
you know Roswell can turn more into a

484
00:22:13,210 --> 00:22:09,920
myth than anything else you know as far

485
00:22:16,150 --> 00:22:13,220
as the story goes who knows what it will

486
00:22:18,460 --> 00:22:16,160
become eventually but as of right now

487
00:22:20,710 --> 00:22:18,470
there's a lot of a lot of stories it's

488
00:22:23,290 --> 00:22:20,720
really hard to figure out what the facts

489
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:23,300
are in this case especially since you

490
00:22:26,410 --> 00:22:24,890
know the witnesses are long gone or

491
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:26,420
almost all of them or there's one or two

492
00:22:33,940 --> 00:22:29,050
living at this point I believe

493
00:22:36,970 --> 00:22:33,950
interesting yeah yes have you ever

494
00:22:39,350 --> 00:22:36,980
actually gone to that area I looked in

495
00:22:42,169 --> 00:22:39,360
yes yeah

496
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:42,179
i-i understand the with my metal with my

497
00:22:48,919 --> 00:22:44,730
with my metal detector oh you actually

498
00:22:52,580 --> 00:22:48,929
went to the site sure oh wow yeah I know

499
00:22:54,260 --> 00:22:52,590
a lot of people have how did they is

500
00:22:57,649 --> 00:22:54,270
that marked off how do you how do you

501
00:23:07,039 --> 00:22:57,659
find it is it just through a GPS or

502
00:23:11,149 --> 00:23:07,049
something the sci-fi channel has put a

503
00:23:12,980 --> 00:23:11,159
marble marker on top of the little hill

504
00:23:15,380 --> 00:23:12,990
there yes they did a program and then

505
00:23:19,250 --> 00:23:15,390
they planted a marker the problem is is

506
00:23:21,590 --> 00:23:19,260
that in order to get to the site which

507
00:23:24,140 --> 00:23:21,600
is owned by like the National Park

508
00:23:27,250 --> 00:23:24,150
Service you have to go through private

509
00:23:30,350 --> 00:23:27,260
property and unless you get permission

510
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:30,360
the ranchers tend to shoot you because

511
00:23:36,049 --> 00:23:33,090
if they have their cattle in that field

512
00:23:37,730 --> 00:23:36,059
you have to go to the field and you know

513
00:23:40,340 --> 00:23:37,740
people have left the gates open and the

514
00:23:42,950 --> 00:23:40,350
cattle have gone down the road so it's

515
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:42,960
really hairy it's a hairy place to get

516
00:23:48,169 --> 00:23:45,450
to and if you go through the National

517
00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:48,179
Park or you know whoever owns it for the

518
00:23:52,730 --> 00:23:50,370
government it's like a 40 mile drive

519
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:52,740
over the roughest roads ever so yeah

520
00:23:58,789 --> 00:23:55,650
it's not easy to find yeah and so this

521
00:24:01,610 --> 00:23:58,799
is I would assume that people are going

522
00:24:04,789 --> 00:24:01,620
to try to get there a lot over the years

523
00:24:08,270 --> 00:24:04,799
but so you have to like if someone plans

524
00:24:09,770 --> 00:24:08,280
to actually go to that site for your

525
00:24:11,180 --> 00:24:09,780
instance for yourself what did you have

526
00:24:13,310 --> 00:24:11,190
to do we don't we've only got about a

527
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:13,320
minute before we go into break no

528
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:18,210
comment well I had to stretch it out for

529
00:24:23,570 --> 00:24:21,210
that okay well like I could tell you

530
00:24:28,370 --> 00:24:23,580
this I can tell you this I detected

531
00:24:31,220 --> 00:24:28,380
metal on the site yeah but I did I did

532
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:31,230
not dig it I did not excavate it and is

533
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:33,690
that a cell is that a taboo thing to do

534
00:24:41,270 --> 00:24:39,450
I mean do they say no digging I think

535
00:24:44,810 --> 00:24:41,280
the guy last guy who admitted to taking

536
00:24:46,730 --> 00:24:44,820
stuff off the property they tried to

537
00:24:49,820 --> 00:24:46,740
take his stuff away and oh yeah to fight

538
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:49,830
it and yeah the guy who's from New

539
00:24:52,730 --> 00:24:52,530
Mexico State or University of New Mexico

540
00:24:55,250 --> 00:24:52,740
or

541
00:24:56,540 --> 00:24:55,260
somewhere I can recall his name offhand

542
00:24:58,910 --> 00:24:56,550
but I'll look it up here at the break

543
00:25:00,980 --> 00:24:58,920
yeah but you know hassle with those

544
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:00,990
people yeah yeah I remember that I

545
00:25:03,590 --> 00:25:02,610
remember that whole story that was a

546
00:25:05,630 --> 00:25:03,600
couple of years ago

547
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:05,640
all right everyone so we're ready to go

548
00:25:10,460 --> 00:25:07,770
into the break so this is Martin Willis

549
00:25:11,990 --> 00:25:10,470
my gret my guest is raesha Szymanski and

550
00:25:12,740 --> 00:25:12,000
we'll be right back right after these

551
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:12,750
messages

552
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:15,690
all right everyone welcome back this is

553
00:25:22,180 --> 00:25:18,210
Martin Willis my guest is race man

554
00:25:24,500 --> 00:25:22,190
Szymanski Szymanski did I say it right

555
00:25:27,740 --> 00:25:24,510
you did but I don't heard the last part

556
00:25:31,790 --> 00:25:27,750
of the name so we'll paused him and make

557
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:31,800
sure everything comes through yeah so we

558
00:25:39,169 --> 00:25:34,490
were just finishing up on Roswell

559
00:25:41,810 --> 00:25:39,179
and let's move on to some of the stories

560
00:25:46,010 --> 00:25:41,820
that you you cover you actually I

561
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:46,020
believe you go in as a skeptic you can't

562
00:25:55,430 --> 00:25:53,090
hear me can't hear me all right all

563
00:25:58,580 --> 00:25:55,440
right I don't want to go right back into

564
00:25:59,630 --> 00:25:58,590
a break but we might say that I can hear

565
00:26:01,940 --> 00:25:59,640
you now okay

566
00:26:04,910 --> 00:26:01,950
all right so I was saying hear you now

567
00:26:07,310 --> 00:26:04,920
yeah yeah all right so let's go into the

568
00:26:13,370 --> 00:26:07,320
of the investigations you did for your

569
00:26:17,360 --> 00:26:13,380
new book well for my new book it's a

570
00:26:22,669 --> 00:26:17,370
story of of three generations of contact

571
00:26:26,330 --> 00:26:22,679
and the grandmother is in her mid 50s

572
00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:26,340
and she has a daughter and that daughter

573
00:26:36,590 --> 00:26:31,710
has a son and Victoria is her name and

574
00:26:41,780 --> 00:26:36,600
so we named the book Victoria's Secret

575
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:41,790
truth now when somebody tells you that

576
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:45,090
they've had contact with creatures that

577
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:49,050
they don't quite understand you had

578
00:26:58,130 --> 00:26:53,970
asked yourself how do I find evidence so

579
00:27:01,940 --> 00:26:58,140
I'm a former research scientist that's

580
00:27:05,180 --> 00:27:01,950
how I spent my career and so I'm trying

581
00:27:06,230 --> 00:27:05,190
to find facts so I can move forward so

582
00:27:11,900 --> 00:27:06,240
on

583
00:27:15,340 --> 00:27:11,910
physical and what we decided to do is we

584
00:27:18,860 --> 00:27:15,350
looked at anything medically and so

585
00:27:20,690 --> 00:27:18,870
Victoria gave me information that could

586
00:27:24,530 --> 00:27:20,700
be backed up by medical records that

587
00:27:26,990 --> 00:27:24,540
would indicate that perhaps there were

588
00:27:31,970 --> 00:27:27,000
some pregnancies there that never came

589
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:31,980
to Tom that in fact her eggs were being

590
00:27:38,390 --> 00:27:34,050
taken from her ever since she was a

591
00:27:42,070 --> 00:27:38,400
small child she has a scoop mark much

592
00:27:45,860 --> 00:27:42,080
like many abductees have it looks like

593
00:27:49,070 --> 00:27:45,870
about the size of your pinky the little

594
00:27:51,110 --> 00:27:49,080
top portion and you could stick the ball

595
00:27:54,470 --> 00:27:51,120
was part of the pinky in there many

596
00:27:57,460 --> 00:27:54,480
abductees have those scoop marks so we

597
00:28:01,580 --> 00:27:57,470
looked at the physical evidence then

598
00:28:05,419 --> 00:28:01,590
Victoria has had four hypnotic

599
00:28:10,430 --> 00:28:05,429
regressions with three of the world's

600
00:28:13,310 --> 00:28:10,440
best hypnotic therapist dr. Leo sprinkle

601
00:28:16,370 --> 00:28:13,320
who wind up eventually reading my

602
00:28:18,070 --> 00:28:16,380
manuscript and wrote the foreword for

603
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:18,080
the book

604
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:24,650
dr. sprinkle has regressed thousands of

605
00:28:32,570 --> 00:28:29,730
admitted abductees the second person who

606
00:28:36,290 --> 00:28:32,580
did a regression of Victoria was Barbara

607
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:36,300
lamb barb was famous for her regressions

608
00:28:48,740 --> 00:28:39,330
she's also done thousands of people the

609
00:28:52,340 --> 00:28:48,750
third person who regressed Victoria I'm

610
00:28:57,610 --> 00:28:52,350
drawing a blank this is really crazy of

611
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:01,280
so dr. sprinkle did two of the

612
00:29:14,299 --> 00:29:07,050
regressions Yvonne did one and Barbara

613
00:29:19,130 --> 00:29:14,309
lamb did one now what I did as I was

614
00:29:20,230 --> 00:29:19,140
reviewing the information is I had

615
00:29:25,130 --> 00:29:20,240
discussed

616
00:29:28,700 --> 00:29:25,140
with Yvonne Smith with Barbara Lam and

617
00:29:31,810 --> 00:29:28,710
with dr. sprinkle and brought them kind

618
00:29:36,289 --> 00:29:31,820
of into this you know discussion

619
00:29:38,509 --> 00:29:36,299
circular discussion about Victoria I

620
00:29:44,740 --> 00:29:38,519
asked them questions about being able to

621
00:29:48,289 --> 00:29:44,750
fool three world-class hypnotherapists

622
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:48,299
what they thought of their sessions with

623
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:51,210
Victoria their analysis of it Victoria

624
00:29:58,940 --> 00:29:55,730
let me share sessions that you know

625
00:30:02,240 --> 00:29:58,950
therapist a got to see therapist B and C

626
00:30:04,820 --> 00:30:02,250
and and round robin so that they could

627
00:30:09,529 --> 00:30:04,830
all see what was happening and you know

628
00:30:12,169 --> 00:30:09,539
I got the thumbs up that this this

629
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:12,179
therapy this this regression all of

630
00:30:17,690 --> 00:30:15,090
these are consistent the story is

631
00:30:20,149 --> 00:30:17,700
consistent and in some cases the

632
00:30:25,820 --> 00:30:20,159
therapist asked these tricky questions

633
00:30:30,340 --> 00:30:25,830
like Victoria would say the the aliens

634
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:30,350
were green and intentionally doctor

635
00:30:35,629 --> 00:30:32,850
sprinkle would say tell me about these

636
00:30:38,259 --> 00:30:35,639
blue aliens and immediately Victoria

637
00:30:40,730 --> 00:30:38,269
would say no they were green aliens and

638
00:30:42,950 --> 00:30:40,740
there are circumstances of each time

639
00:30:45,289 --> 00:30:42,960
these therapists did that it's kind of a

640
00:30:50,870 --> 00:30:45,299
check to see if the story could be

641
00:30:53,899 --> 00:30:50,880
influenced and in those sessions she was

642
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:53,909
airtight and I tried doing the same

643
00:31:00,590 --> 00:30:56,970
thing I had over 40 hours of interviews

644
00:31:03,100 --> 00:31:00,600
with Victoria and trust me I asked her a

645
00:31:07,029 --> 00:31:03,110
loaded question I'd slipped things in

646
00:31:09,860 --> 00:31:07,039
she never made a mistake she never

647
00:31:12,549 --> 00:31:09,870
contradicted herself it was clear as a

648
00:31:16,190 --> 00:31:12,559
bell so as far as a witness is concerned

649
00:31:22,039 --> 00:31:16,200
my confidence is soaring in Victoria

650
00:31:24,649 --> 00:31:22,049
story so the book focuses a lot on her

651
00:31:27,110 --> 00:31:24,659
and then she has a grandson and her

652
00:31:31,129 --> 00:31:27,120
grandsons now about eight or nine and

653
00:31:33,019 --> 00:31:31,139
her grandson has had visitors that he

654
00:31:33,860 --> 00:31:33,029
drew pictures of for her and that he

655
00:31:36,230 --> 00:31:33,870
described

656
00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:36,240
conscious memories of what they did to

657
00:31:44,299 --> 00:31:39,840
him when they visited him and those

658
00:31:47,390 --> 00:31:44,309
visitations with him continue today well

659
00:31:50,029 --> 00:31:47,400
and so you said three generations and

660
00:31:54,409 --> 00:31:50,039
use you were you able to speak to all

661
00:31:58,669 --> 00:31:54,419
three of them are you saying um the

662
00:32:01,789 --> 00:31:58,679
daughter is currently not cooperating

663
00:32:03,890 --> 00:32:01,799
huh yeah she doesn't want to hear it she

664
00:32:09,769 --> 00:32:03,900
doesn't want any part in it and I just

665
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:09,779
got to respect that yeah okay but so

666
00:32:17,659 --> 00:32:14,010
through the say her mother her mother

667
00:32:19,700 --> 00:32:17,669
says yes she has talked about it or she

668
00:32:25,130 --> 00:32:19,710
doesn't want to be interviewed how did

669
00:32:26,090 --> 00:32:25,140
that how did that go from whose

670
00:32:29,210 --> 00:32:26,100
perspective

671
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:29,220
I'm just saying did how did you know

672
00:32:36,860 --> 00:32:32,730
that she was part part of this as far as

673
00:32:40,340 --> 00:32:36,870
the abductions or whatever if she didn't

674
00:32:43,070 --> 00:32:40,350
want to talk about it yeah well you know

675
00:32:45,769 --> 00:32:43,080
you talked to the mother and you get

676
00:32:49,460 --> 00:32:45,779
some answers so I I see and they were

677
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:49,470
very very very limited mm-hmm so at this

678
00:32:56,029 --> 00:32:53,130
point this point I'm I I know it's a

679
00:32:58,820 --> 00:32:56,039
certainty but you know I'm respecting

680
00:33:00,919 --> 00:32:58,830
her privacy here and when the the

681
00:33:04,010 --> 00:33:00,929
grandmother or the the first generation

682
00:33:07,250 --> 00:33:04,020
when did she when did these things start

683
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:07,260
happening to her what year

684
00:33:14,570 --> 00:33:11,970
this would have started in the late 60s

685
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:14,580
when she was actually living outside

686
00:33:21,620 --> 00:33:18,690
Cincinnati and the fact of where she

687
00:33:24,110 --> 00:33:21,630
lives is a kind of a cornerstone of the

688
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:24,120
story because she was a young girl of

689
00:33:30,380 --> 00:33:26,850
about four or five when she got what she

690
00:33:32,919 --> 00:33:30,390
referred to as her alien scoop even when

691
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:32,929
she was a youngster and she remembers

692
00:33:40,580 --> 00:33:38,130
visitations of entities in her room and

693
00:33:46,279 --> 00:33:40,590
she actually has conscious memories of

694
00:33:47,630 --> 00:33:46,289
of seeing a spaceship well it was very

695
00:33:50,270 --> 00:33:47,640
young you know

696
00:33:53,090 --> 00:33:50,280
you know there's not a lot of people

697
00:33:55,549 --> 00:33:53,100
that will talk about things happening

698
00:33:57,650 --> 00:33:55,559
back at that time but there are a few

699
00:34:00,130 --> 00:33:57,660
you know I mean that's back when the

700
00:34:03,410 --> 00:34:00,140
Betty and Barney Hill incident happened

701
00:34:07,730 --> 00:34:03,420
that's also there's also been other

702
00:34:11,540 --> 00:34:07,740
situations for instance Kathy Martin has

703
00:34:14,300 --> 00:34:11,550
told me who she is the niece of Betty

704
00:34:16,190 --> 00:34:14,310
Hill and she was saying that it it was

705
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:16,200
generational there was some things that

706
00:34:20,540 --> 00:34:18,330
were happening generational in her

707
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:20,550
family I believe she said it was her

708
00:34:26,330 --> 00:34:23,490
either a mother and maybe her possibly

709
00:34:28,909 --> 00:34:26,340
her grandmother that had some of these

710
00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:28,919
experiences at I hope I don't get that

711
00:34:30,919 --> 00:34:30,480
wrong but I do believe that's what she

712
00:34:34,010 --> 00:34:30,929
told me

713
00:34:36,919 --> 00:34:34,020
so it is that always has been an

714
00:34:38,359 --> 00:34:36,929
interesting aspect I've been on the

715
00:34:40,879 --> 00:34:38,369
fence a lot of times on some of these

716
00:34:45,770 --> 00:34:40,889
you know so-called abductions or

717
00:34:48,020 --> 00:34:45,780
encounters experiencers that it is

718
00:34:50,389 --> 00:34:48,030
interesting how it seems to be a

719
00:34:52,369 --> 00:34:50,399
generational thing and if you had to

720
00:34:54,859 --> 00:34:52,379
speculate I know you have you have a

721
00:34:57,250 --> 00:34:54,869
science background speculation is not

722
00:34:59,540 --> 00:34:57,260
what a lot of scientists want to do but

723
00:35:03,170 --> 00:34:59,550
what would you speculate would be the

724
00:35:06,849 --> 00:35:03,180
reason why it would be generational well

725
00:35:09,710 --> 00:35:06,859
I think they chose the first person

726
00:35:13,450 --> 00:35:09,720
maybe because of their environment or a

727
00:35:17,270 --> 00:35:13,460
genetics let's take Victoria for example

728
00:35:20,900 --> 00:35:17,280
there was a place in southern Ohio just

729
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:20,910
north of Cincinnati called national-led

730
00:35:30,650 --> 00:35:24,890
of Ohio it was also called furnald and

731
00:35:34,150 --> 00:35:30,660
they made enriched uranium products for

732
00:35:37,370 --> 00:35:34,160
the nuclear weapons program

733
00:35:39,109 --> 00:35:37,380
unfortunately the contractors were not

734
00:35:42,620 --> 00:35:39,119
paying attention to what they're doing

735
00:35:49,180 --> 00:35:42,630
and they eventually discovered that the

736
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:49,190
people who ran that plant spewed over 1

737
00:36:00,650 --> 00:35:55,290
million pounds of radioactive waste into

738
00:36:05,300 --> 00:36:00,660
the air the ground and the water

739
00:36:07,970 --> 00:36:05,310
Victoria Victoria and you can look up at

740
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:07,980
national if you look up just Taipan NLO

741
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:12,890
and nuclear it was the worst nuclear

742
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:16,050
environmental I I don't want to use the

743
00:36:23,450 --> 00:36:19,290
word accident event in this country's

744
00:36:25,910 --> 00:36:23,460
history the cancers that have been

745
00:36:31,580 --> 00:36:25,920
caused studied studies have been done

746
00:36:34,310 --> 00:36:31,590
are astronomically higher the cases per

747
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:34,320
capita than they should be it's it's

748
00:36:45,740 --> 00:36:39,930
it's it's incredible but Victoria only

749
00:36:50,630 --> 00:36:45,750
lived five miles due west of the furnald

750
00:36:53,060 --> 00:36:50,640
plant now her mother would work at the

751
00:36:57,290 --> 00:36:53,070
for an alt plant and all the workers

752
00:37:01,100 --> 00:36:57,300
were exposed her mother died of a

753
00:37:04,010 --> 00:37:01,110
radiological induced disease and her

754
00:37:07,220 --> 00:37:04,020
brother also died at an early age I

755
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:07,230
won't speculate on his death but I think

756
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:09,570
if if I had enough time I could probably

757
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:14,130
tie it back into the fact that he was in

758
00:37:20,830 --> 00:37:17,850
his mother's womb while she was in the

759
00:37:23,450 --> 00:37:20,840
factory and so was Victoria now imagine

760
00:37:27,140 --> 00:37:23,460
you're somebody who's trying to find a

761
00:37:32,540 --> 00:37:27,150
human being who appears to be not immune

762
00:37:35,780 --> 00:37:32,550
but not as affected by nuclear radiation

763
00:37:38,870 --> 00:37:35,790
as the average human as appears to be

764
00:37:41,900 --> 00:37:38,880
the case with Victoria so now you're

765
00:37:45,340 --> 00:37:41,910
somebody from you know another planet

766
00:37:50,030 --> 00:37:45,350
and you go well we really need to create

767
00:37:52,790 --> 00:37:50,040
hybrids who have some some self genetic

768
00:37:55,010 --> 00:37:52,800
protection against this radiation thing

769
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:55,020
so Victoria would be one of those

770
00:38:01,070 --> 00:37:57,770
because in one of her her regressions

771
00:38:04,070 --> 00:38:01,080
the entity that's got her on the table

772
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:04,080
as examining her is telepathically

773
00:38:09,790 --> 00:38:07,410
asking or why are you so healthy and

774
00:38:15,079 --> 00:38:09,800
your mother and your brother were not

775
00:38:20,299 --> 00:38:15,089
hmm it's a huge clue as to why Victoria

776
00:38:22,969 --> 00:38:20,309
may have been chosen so so now

777
00:38:26,390 --> 00:38:22,979
genetically you've got a good baseline

778
00:38:29,479 --> 00:38:26,400
subject to start with somebody who may

779
00:38:33,109 --> 00:38:29,489
be not as affected by all that stuff

780
00:38:35,989 --> 00:38:33,119
that blew out of the NLO plant so I'm

781
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:35,999
just guessing you know it's an educated

782
00:38:40,549 --> 00:38:38,249
guess based upon all the research I did

783
00:38:42,829 --> 00:38:40,559
on Victoria our family their history

784
00:38:44,989 --> 00:38:42,839
their medical history that that may be

785
00:38:46,759 --> 00:38:44,999
the reason that she was selected that

786
00:38:49,069 --> 00:38:46,769
she turned out to be healthy despite the

787
00:38:51,079 --> 00:38:49,079
fact that she was downwind of this stuff

788
00:38:53,809 --> 00:38:51,089
for her entire childhood while that

789
00:38:56,299 --> 00:38:53,819
plant was active now you say downwind

790
00:38:59,749 --> 00:38:56,309
doesn't the wind typically go from west

791
00:39:01,430 --> 00:38:59,759
to east and at least five miles east of

792
00:39:03,979 --> 00:39:01,440
the plan east I thought you said West

793
00:39:05,900 --> 00:39:03,989
I'm sorry I should mix that out okay if

794
00:39:07,940 --> 00:39:05,910
I did say west I would have said the

795
00:39:10,519 --> 00:39:07,950
plant was five miles west but yes she

796
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:10,529
was downwind and I've checked all of the

797
00:39:14,180 --> 00:39:12,690
weather patterns and stuff and you know

798
00:39:18,219 --> 00:39:14,190
if you look at the weather patterns from

799
00:39:21,709 --> 00:39:18,229
where the wind actually blows it's about

800
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:21,719
45% from the West and then arrests get

801
00:39:29,870 --> 00:39:24,690
divvies up you know Southwest through to

802
00:39:31,670 --> 00:39:29,880
do northeast yeah yeah well now this is

803
00:39:33,769 --> 00:39:31,680
totally off topic but just quickly did

804
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:33,779
they ever really clean up that horrible

805
00:39:38,839 --> 00:39:35,729
disaster is that all cleaned up at this

806
00:39:42,170 --> 00:39:38,849
point yes and then they developed a a

807
00:39:43,729 --> 00:39:42,180
piddly squad diddly-squat amount of

808
00:39:47,329 --> 00:39:43,739
money they're paying these people and

809
00:39:48,739 --> 00:39:47,339
and you know if they're long dead the

810
00:39:50,150 --> 00:39:48,749
relatives aren't getting anything you

811
00:39:52,819 --> 00:39:50,160
know we actually I know who the attorney

812
00:39:56,089 --> 00:39:52,829
is for the class-action suit contacted

813
00:39:58,549 --> 00:39:56,099
them I chatted with them but I cooked

814
00:40:01,269 --> 00:39:58,559
him up with Victoria to see if anything

815
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:01,279
could be done nothing they could do yeah

816
00:40:09,890 --> 00:40:04,170
well so it's a travesty all the way

817
00:40:11,660 --> 00:40:09,900
around yeah yeah absolutely so what what

818
00:40:13,759 --> 00:40:11,670
was your kind of your conclusion so you

819
00:40:15,069 --> 00:40:13,769
think something really did happen to

820
00:40:19,489 --> 00:40:15,079
this family and something's actually

821
00:40:22,490 --> 00:40:19,499
continuing to happen to this boy how old

822
00:40:30,140 --> 00:40:27,580
oh I would say probably eight or nine Oh

823
00:40:35,570 --> 00:40:30,150
real it's don't use that started when he

824
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:35,580
was about four Wow well that's something

825
00:40:44,810 --> 00:40:39,810
and so your other book I believe you

826
00:40:47,270 --> 00:40:44,820
talked I mean you go into each case

827
00:40:50,510 --> 00:40:47,280
there's three cases you go into as a

828
00:40:54,020 --> 00:40:50,520
skeptic you're trying to debunk them one

829
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:54,030
of them is the Travis Walton incident

830
00:41:00,290 --> 00:40:57,450
one is Rendlesham forest and one is the

831
00:41:02,180 --> 00:41:00,300
Phoenix lights is that right Exeter oh

832
00:41:05,750 --> 00:41:02,190
yeah that's right Exeter but it's

833
00:41:07,490 --> 00:41:05,760
Phoenix lights that really moved you to

834
00:41:10,250 --> 00:41:07,500
decide you were going to look into this

835
00:41:14,710 --> 00:41:10,260
is that am I wrong did I get that right

836
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:14,720
yes yes and here's here's why Martin

837
00:41:27,620 --> 00:41:24,050
when the Phoenix lights came out they

838
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:27,630
contacted Luke Air Force Base and asked

839
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:29,970
if there were any Jets chasing the UFO

840
00:41:37,070 --> 00:41:33,570
with which witnesses reported and Luke

841
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:37,080
Air Force Base said no there were no

842
00:41:44,230 --> 00:41:39,930
planes and then it became flares being

843
00:41:47,839 --> 00:41:44,240
dropped and then well I I became

844
00:41:50,599 --> 00:41:47,849
incensed at the response of Luke Air

845
00:41:53,420 --> 00:41:50,609
Force Base as public information officer

846
00:41:58,180 --> 00:41:53,430
because it made the rest of us working

847
00:42:02,780 --> 00:41:58,190
for the Air Force look stupid mm-hmm

848
00:42:04,579 --> 00:42:02,790
it's like look at Roswell I can give you

849
00:42:08,870 --> 00:42:04,589
that wasn't even my generation I don't

850
00:42:11,150 --> 00:42:08,880
care but now you got a sighting where a

851
00:42:15,410 --> 00:42:11,160
hundred thousand people have got it on

852
00:42:18,140 --> 00:42:15,420
film and police officers first

853
00:42:21,020 --> 00:42:18,150
responders you know everyday Joe's but

854
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:21,030
people who are really saying and don't

855
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:23,490
want the publicity and they're saying we

856
00:42:28,250 --> 00:42:25,170
saw it and then the Air Force is gonna

857
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:28,260
come out and go yeah I mean I know we

858
00:42:32,089 --> 00:42:29,970
have to we can't use the weather balloon

859
00:42:33,770 --> 00:42:32,099
thing anymore so how about some flares

860
00:42:36,470 --> 00:42:33,780
you're all going to buy the flares thing

861
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:36,480
and they made some thing up about eight

862
00:42:42,319 --> 00:42:40,050
and there was BS and at that point I

863
00:42:46,300 --> 00:42:42,329
said you know what I'm jumping in with

864
00:42:49,730 --> 00:42:46,310
both feet I'm gonna find out for myself

865
00:42:51,950 --> 00:42:49,740
and and that's when I really started to

866
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:51,960
dig and I you know called in some favors

867
00:42:58,250 --> 00:42:55,050
I talked to some intelligence people in

868
00:43:01,250 --> 00:42:58,260
the Air Force showed them some things

869
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:01,260
and I got some very positive encouraging

870
00:43:05,839 --> 00:43:03,450
responses from them I thought they would

871
00:43:07,339 --> 00:43:05,849
Stonewall me that's not what happened in

872
00:43:10,430 --> 00:43:07,349
fact I think they wanted to know as much

873
00:43:12,380 --> 00:43:10,440
as I did about you know and it was like

874
00:43:15,140 --> 00:43:12,390
hey keep me posted on this Phoenix

875
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:15,150
lights things but I got some help from

876
00:43:19,730 --> 00:43:17,130
quarters that I really didn't think I

877
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:19,740
would get any and and that's what really

878
00:43:24,290 --> 00:43:21,930
got me going and I started to do some

879
00:43:27,290 --> 00:43:24,300
field research and eventually I wound up

880
00:43:30,260 --> 00:43:27,300
going to Exeter and finding new

881
00:43:34,190 --> 00:43:30,270
witnesses and old witnesses and visited

882
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:34,200
the sites and had some unique how would

883
00:43:39,109 --> 00:43:37,050
you say advancements there into a story

884
00:43:41,809 --> 00:43:39,119
I wanted to debunk but they actually

885
00:43:44,930 --> 00:43:41,819
kept finding more evidence yeah I'm just

886
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:44,940
if we can just just one second go back

887
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:49,770
to the Phoenix lights so oh that I think

888
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:51,210
was March 13th or something like that

889
00:43:56,690 --> 00:43:52,410
1997

890
00:44:00,140 --> 00:43:56,700
and so it's it is possible that there

891
00:44:02,079 --> 00:44:00,150
was some military flares but that only

892
00:44:04,730 --> 00:44:02,089
accounts for a short period of time

893
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:04,740
people were seeing these you know this

894
00:44:09,890 --> 00:44:07,050
big thing flying over them some people

895
00:44:12,890 --> 00:44:09,900
even guessing up to eight miles wide you

896
00:44:18,020 --> 00:44:12,900
know that hour at least miles wide which

897
00:44:20,690 --> 00:44:18,030
is pretty amazing and so the military is

898
00:44:24,109 --> 00:44:20,700
or the Air Force is saying that it was

899
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:24,119
just military flares and you were on the

900
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:26,970
inside basically contacting them because

901
00:44:31,790 --> 00:44:29,490
you were able to reach people and and

902
00:44:33,410 --> 00:44:31,800
how was your interaction and then we'll

903
00:44:35,690 --> 00:44:33,420
go on to the exodus story but how was

904
00:44:37,910 --> 00:44:35,700
your interaction with that well the the

905
00:44:39,620 --> 00:44:37,920
guy was the guy was um went public

906
00:44:42,890 --> 00:44:39,630
because the public information officer

907
00:44:44,240 --> 00:44:42,900
when he issues something now you know he

908
00:44:46,849 --> 00:44:44,250
doesn't really issue anything what

909
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:46,859
happens is is the commander the base

910
00:44:50,210 --> 00:44:49,050
commander says we've been contacted tell

911
00:44:53,210 --> 00:44:50,220
us the public information

912
00:44:56,060 --> 00:44:53,220
sir what's the response they'll contact

913
00:44:58,520 --> 00:44:56,070
the public information people up at the

914
00:45:00,470 --> 00:44:58,530
Secretary of Defense's office and say

915
00:45:02,300 --> 00:45:00,480
what do you want us to say here's what

916
00:45:04,820 --> 00:45:02,310
we're proposing yeah they get it

917
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:04,830
approved it goes back down to two Luke

918
00:45:09,410 --> 00:45:06,330
Air Force Base and then they do the

919
00:45:11,599 --> 00:45:09,420
release well the Department of Defense

920
00:45:15,470 --> 00:45:11,609
has a thing called a global address book

921
00:45:17,060 --> 00:45:15,480
so when you on the inside in your you're

922
00:45:20,330 --> 00:45:17,070
there and you've got your catcard in

923
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:20,340
your machine you can access everybody's

924
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:24,330
email address so I knew who the PIO was

925
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:27,090
I looked him up on a global and sent him

926
00:45:35,839 --> 00:45:31,010
an inquiry and kind of got stonewalled

927
00:45:37,339 --> 00:45:35,849
and then I got mad and I go stop making

928
00:45:39,500 --> 00:45:37,349
it I said immediately stop making us

929
00:45:41,210 --> 00:45:39,510
look stupid please you got to come up

930
00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:41,220
with something better than that or how

931
00:45:46,130 --> 00:45:44,730
about the truth and totally still was

932
00:45:48,589 --> 00:45:46,140
and I know other guys in the building

933
00:45:51,500 --> 00:45:48,599
did the same thing because it's like

934
00:45:53,270 --> 00:45:51,510
look it we know you've got to make

935
00:45:56,870 --> 00:45:53,280
something up but you're making us look

936
00:45:58,790 --> 00:45:56,880
really dumb yes oh stop it

937
00:46:00,349 --> 00:45:58,800
and and of course now they're gonna

938
00:46:03,380 --> 00:46:00,359
Stonewall us they won't talk to us but

939
00:46:05,450 --> 00:46:03,390
at least at least I got the satisfaction

940
00:46:08,510 --> 00:46:05,460
I got the bark at him at least once yeah

941
00:46:10,579 --> 00:46:08,520
yeah yeah that's right there was this

942
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:10,589
story of a fighter pilot that went up

943
00:46:17,089 --> 00:46:12,570
and looked at it and he was absolutely

944
00:46:18,829 --> 00:46:17,099
shaken from what he saw and it would be

945
00:46:21,079 --> 00:46:18,839
so interesting to be able to figure out

946
00:46:24,349 --> 00:46:21,089
who that was and be able to talk to him

947
00:46:26,210 --> 00:46:24,359
that would be amazing that I'm sure

948
00:46:29,900 --> 00:46:26,220
that's a situation where he can't talk

949
00:46:31,250 --> 00:46:29,910
about it you know for because that I'm

950
00:46:34,690 --> 00:46:31,260
sure everything was top secret and

951
00:46:37,700 --> 00:46:34,700
classified with with what he saw that

952
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:37,710
any way I can America anyway for the

953
00:46:42,890 --> 00:46:39,690
listener that's just first starting to

954
00:46:44,930 --> 00:46:42,900
listen and find out about this topic in

955
00:46:46,430 --> 00:46:44,940
general check out the Phoenix life

956
00:46:49,460 --> 00:46:46,440
there's a lot of really good information

957
00:46:52,250 --> 00:46:49,470
online about that there are a couple of

958
00:46:54,620 --> 00:46:52,260
movies that are are not exactly there

959
00:46:56,900 --> 00:46:54,630
they're kind of theatrical movies that

960
00:46:59,599 --> 00:46:56,910
is not really the real story but if you

961
00:47:01,609 --> 00:46:59,609
look into it you will see a lot of

962
00:47:03,470 --> 00:47:01,619
really good information on that so we

963
00:47:05,359 --> 00:47:03,480
have just a three minutes we'll start

964
00:47:09,770 --> 00:47:05,369
getting into before we go into break

965
00:47:11,660 --> 00:47:09,780
that is before before we do though going

966
00:47:13,609 --> 00:47:11,670
to break you want to start talking about

967
00:47:17,180 --> 00:47:13,619
Exeter you actually travel to Exeter New

968
00:47:20,510 --> 00:47:17,190
Hampshire I did yes I went to Exeter and

969
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:20,520
I try to find some of the old the sites

970
00:47:25,430 --> 00:47:22,650
that were mentioned in incident at

971
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:25,440
Exeter written by John fuller yeah yeah

972
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:27,810
and and he wrote he wrote that whole

973
00:47:34,220 --> 00:47:30,570
story yeah and as far as witnesses I

974
00:47:36,230 --> 00:47:34,230
know the main witness died and I think

975
00:47:39,470 --> 00:47:36,240
in 2001 or something like that I can't

976
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:39,480
remember exactly when Arthur witnesses

977
00:47:47,990 --> 00:47:42,330
left to actually talk to there yeah

978
00:47:52,550 --> 00:47:48,000
actually it turns out that Clyde Russell

979
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:52,560
on the Russell farm and next door was a

980
00:47:58,310 --> 00:47:54,570
man by the name his last name was dining

981
00:48:02,180 --> 00:47:58,320
di ni ng and in between the Russell farm

982
00:48:05,839 --> 00:48:02,190
and a dining farm is a large horse

983
00:48:09,260 --> 00:48:05,849
pasture a couple of acres and on the

984
00:48:12,079 --> 00:48:09,270
night of in September 1965 Norman

985
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:12,089
muscarello was walking up route 150

986
00:48:17,089 --> 00:48:13,490
going into Exeter he's hitchhiking

987
00:48:20,390 --> 00:48:17,099
coming from a friend's house and he got

988
00:48:24,079 --> 00:48:20,400
in front of the Russell farm house and

989
00:48:30,140 --> 00:48:24,089
up hovering over the garage and the

990
00:48:32,270 --> 00:48:30,150
house was a 90-foot UFO and I did my

991
00:48:35,390 --> 00:48:32,280
research and I found out where that

992
00:48:38,599 --> 00:48:35,400
house was and I eventually visited that

993
00:48:42,710 --> 00:48:38,609
in about 2008 and who did I find living

994
00:48:44,450 --> 00:48:42,720
there but Clyde Russell's son Arthur and

995
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:44,460
Arthur knew the whole story

996
00:48:49,820 --> 00:48:47,490
mm-hmm and Clyde Russell and his family

997
00:48:52,070 --> 00:48:49,830
was made famous in the book in stood in

998
00:48:55,339 --> 00:48:52,080
an Exeter and when we come back from the

999
00:48:57,650 --> 00:48:55,349
break I can tell you about how I spent

1000
00:48:59,630 --> 00:48:57,660
the day with Clyde Russell and the

1001
00:49:02,390 --> 00:48:59,640
witness that he introduced me to that

1002
00:49:04,820 --> 00:49:02,400
gave me some additional information on

1003
00:49:06,650 --> 00:49:04,830
that particular incident

1004
00:49:08,870 --> 00:49:06,660
yeah that's really fascinating well

1005
00:49:11,630 --> 00:49:08,880
that's great okay everyone we're gonna

1006
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:11,640
go into the break now and we'll be back

1007
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:13,530
in just a few minutes so hang in there

1008
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:15,050
all right welcome

1009
00:49:20,620 --> 00:49:16,850
Martin Willis my guest is raishin

1010
00:49:22,570 --> 00:49:20,630
shebanski she's met Shimon ski Szymanski

1011
00:49:24,370 --> 00:49:22,580
sorry ray I'm really having trouble

1012
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:24,380
that's here we go this is how they this

1013
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:30,170
is how they can spell it okay yeah

1014
00:49:34,810 --> 00:49:33,890
so ray we were used when we went in to

1015
00:49:39,130 --> 00:49:34,820
break you said that you're gonna

1016
00:49:43,510 --> 00:49:39,140
continue spent a day with the Sun from

1017
00:49:48,460 --> 00:49:43,520
incident Exeter one of the the farmhouse

1018
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:48,470
right yeah in 1965 Norman muscarello was

1019
00:49:52,900 --> 00:49:50,810
trying to thumb a ride as he walked up

1020
00:49:55,780 --> 00:49:52,910
new hancher route 150 on his way back

1021
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:55,790
home to Exeter and it was very very dark

1022
00:49:59,380 --> 00:49:57,530
and if I've actually been out on that

1023
00:50:01,600 --> 00:49:59,390
road at the same time of year with no

1024
00:50:03,580 --> 00:50:01,610
moon and you cannot see your hand in

1025
00:50:04,750 --> 00:50:03,590
front of your face so he's trying to

1026
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:04,760
flag down a ride

1027
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:06,410
he's now in front of the Russell farm

1028
00:50:13,030 --> 00:50:09,410
house and out behind a tree line pops

1029
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:13,040
this object that Norman always called

1030
00:50:18,610 --> 00:50:16,370
that thing he never called it a craft he

1031
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:18,620
never called it a UFO he always said

1032
00:50:23,620 --> 00:50:21,170
that thing and they had these lights on

1033
00:50:26,110 --> 00:50:23,630
it it was like a six five four three two

1034
00:50:27,910 --> 00:50:26,120
one one two three four five six and

1035
00:50:30,730 --> 00:50:27,920
that's the way the perdón was what it

1036
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:30,740
was hovering just a few feet over the

1037
00:50:36,460 --> 00:50:35,210
farmhouse and and the garage so Norman

1038
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:36,470
thinking this thing's gonna fall in

1039
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:38,810
crush him runs across the row dives into

1040
00:50:44,590 --> 00:50:41,690
the narrow channel there and the UFO

1041
00:50:46,660 --> 00:50:44,600
backs off he makes it into Exeter police

1042
00:50:49,810 --> 00:50:46,670
station somebody actually picked him up

1043
00:50:52,570 --> 00:50:49,820
he was hysterical but I by the name of

1044
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:52,580
Reginald scratch Tolan is the desk

1045
00:50:59,740 --> 00:50:56,410
sergeant Norman spits out this story and

1046
00:51:02,020 --> 00:50:59,750
he says to a guy by the name of Eugene

1047
00:51:04,150 --> 00:51:02,030
Bertrand a police officer who had just

1048
00:51:06,730 --> 00:51:04,160
come to check in he said Jean go out

1049
00:51:08,530 --> 00:51:06,740
there take them to that field check it

1050
00:51:10,690 --> 00:51:08,540
out and you know there's nothing there

1051
00:51:11,860 --> 00:51:10,700
come back so they get out there they're

1052
00:51:14,290 --> 00:51:11,870
out there for about five ten minutes

1053
00:51:16,540 --> 00:51:14,300
they don't see anything and now they

1054
00:51:19,510 --> 00:51:16,550
want to head out of that field and come

1055
00:51:22,450 --> 00:51:19,520
back to the squad car when that thing

1056
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:22,460
reappears it hovers less than a hundred

1057
00:51:28,590 --> 00:51:24,650
feet over the head of police officer

1058
00:51:32,490 --> 00:51:28,600
Bertrand and Norman muscarello well

1059
00:51:35,490 --> 00:51:32,500
being a highly-trained defender of civil

1060
00:51:37,830 --> 00:51:35,500
liberties pulls out his revolver gets

1061
00:51:40,550 --> 00:51:37,840
down on one knee aims it at the craft

1062
00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:40,560
and then went no not today

1063
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:45,250
real good move on yeah it was he grabs

1064
00:51:49,380 --> 00:51:47,170
Norman and they stay run to the squad

1065
00:51:51,630 --> 00:51:49,390
car and he gets on the squawky he goes

1066
00:51:54,270 --> 00:51:51,640
scrat's I see the sink I see the damn

1067
00:51:58,260 --> 00:51:54,280
thing myself well as he's talking to

1068
00:52:00,870 --> 00:51:58,270
scratch back at the office David Hunt

1069
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:00,880
another patrolman pulls up they go back

1070
00:52:04,500 --> 00:52:03,010
into the field and now all three of them

1071
00:52:06,030 --> 00:52:04,510
watch as that thing heads out towards

1072
00:52:10,140 --> 00:52:06,040
the Atlantic Ocean yeah

1073
00:52:12,540 --> 00:52:10,150
so that's 1965 September

1074
00:52:15,780 --> 00:52:12,550
fast forward decades later I'm in the

1075
00:52:19,470 --> 00:52:15,790
Exeter area and I done my research and I

1076
00:52:22,860 --> 00:52:19,480
figured out do internet searches where

1077
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:22,870
that farmhouse was now that'd be 65 75

1078
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:26,050
85 95 oh five you know this is almost 50

1079
00:52:31,410 --> 00:52:28,090
years later I don't expect to find

1080
00:52:36,750 --> 00:52:31,420
anybody there who knows anything I get

1081
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:36,760
there and who do I find is the son of

1082
00:52:40,590 --> 00:52:38,650
Clyde Russell who was there all those

1083
00:52:42,540 --> 00:52:40,600
years ago and it was made famous in the

1084
00:52:45,570 --> 00:52:42,550
book it's his son Arthur he's 80 years

1085
00:52:47,790 --> 00:52:45,580
old I tell Arthur who I am I'm an Air

1086
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:47,800
Force guy I'm interested in a story what

1087
00:52:54,210 --> 00:52:50,530
does he know he walks me through the

1088
00:52:56,010 --> 00:52:54,220
entire story when you get my book you'll

1089
00:53:01,020 --> 00:52:56,020
see I've got a photo of Arthur in there

1090
00:53:03,030 --> 00:53:01,030
and he's actually pointing where Norman

1091
00:53:05,460 --> 00:53:03,040
was standing he's pointing to the place

1092
00:53:08,670 --> 00:53:05,470
where that UFO was hovering over their

1093
00:53:10,980 --> 00:53:08,680
farmhouse he toured me through the

1094
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:10,990
property showed me where the UFO was

1095
00:53:16,860 --> 00:53:13,890
most likely hiding during the daytime

1096
00:53:19,830 --> 00:53:16,870
introduce me to neighbors who had

1097
00:53:22,380 --> 00:53:19,840
stories but couldn't come forward for

1098
00:53:26,190 --> 00:53:22,390
the author John fuller because they were

1099
00:53:30,210 --> 00:53:26,200
in positions of prominence one that he

1100
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:30,220
introduced me to was the head teacher at

1101
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:34,570
the Exeter Academy hmm prestigious

1102
00:53:39,740 --> 00:53:38,290
eating under me yeah it is he knew what

1103
00:53:42,420 --> 00:53:39,750
was going on but couldn't say anything

1104
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:42,430
he eventually purchased

1105
00:53:48,900 --> 00:53:45,490
the dining farm now why is it important

1106
00:53:52,019 --> 00:53:48,910
because in the John fuller book he

1107
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:52,029
describes the horses as were described

1108
00:53:59,970 --> 00:53:54,210
by the police officer in muscarello

1109
00:54:03,539 --> 00:53:59,980
making a huge noise in their barns like

1110
00:54:07,130 --> 00:54:03,549
they were kicking it in when I talked to

1111
00:54:11,609 --> 00:54:07,140
this former teacher at Exeter he told me

1112
00:54:14,490 --> 00:54:11,619
that when he bought the dining farm the

1113
00:54:17,190 --> 00:54:14,500
horse stables where the horses were was

1114
00:54:20,490 --> 00:54:17,200
still kicked in well it had never been

1115
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:20,500
repaired and indeed that night when that

1116
00:54:25,859 --> 00:54:23,170
UFO was hovering over that farm field

1117
00:54:28,289 --> 00:54:25,869
over Norman and those two police

1118
00:54:31,289 --> 00:54:28,299
officers the horses were kicking in

1119
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:31,299
their barns and he was the first guy to

1120
00:54:38,609 --> 00:54:33,970
verify that in an interview that I did

1121
00:54:40,650 --> 00:54:38,619
with him in 2008 Wow yeah so that was

1122
00:54:43,079 --> 00:54:40,660
one of my revelations I was like yeah

1123
00:54:44,279 --> 00:54:43,089
I'm not gonna find anything and yet I

1124
00:54:48,150 --> 00:54:44,289
got people who've come out of the

1125
00:54:50,670 --> 00:54:48,160
woodwork yeah I grew up oh I don't know

1126
00:54:53,970 --> 00:54:50,680
maybe 10 miles away from that area

1127
00:54:56,549 --> 00:54:53,980
vaguely remember hearing about it I was

1128
00:54:59,010 --> 00:54:56,559
on the main side but maybe 15 miles away

1129
00:55:00,839 --> 00:54:59,020
something like that I vaguely remember

1130
00:55:03,539 --> 00:55:00,849
hearing something about it but never

1131
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:03,549
really you know looked into it of course

1132
00:55:07,650 --> 00:55:06,130
when I was growing up I I thought this

1133
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:07,660
was an interesting topic but never

1134
00:55:13,109 --> 00:55:10,930
really looked into anything that now

1135
00:55:17,099 --> 00:55:13,119
there was a there was something about a

1136
00:55:19,620 --> 00:55:17,109
woman at a traffic circle also during

1137
00:55:22,230 --> 00:55:19,630
that incident right someone who hurt yes

1138
00:55:24,720 --> 00:55:22,240
I stopped or something yes he was

1139
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:24,730
driving down the road and and John

1140
00:55:29,910 --> 00:55:26,650
Fuller's book the name of the road is

1141
00:55:32,420 --> 00:55:29,920
you know defined in there it came and

1142
00:55:34,980 --> 00:55:32,430
hovered over her car and her car stopped

1143
00:55:37,079 --> 00:55:34,990
and it floated out in front of her and

1144
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:37,089
she got to witness it for several

1145
00:55:42,450 --> 00:55:39,970
minutes yeah and if you go through

1146
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:42,460
Fuller's book there are dozens upon

1147
00:55:49,260 --> 00:55:46,210
dozens of of witnesses and in the end

1148
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:49,270
Pease Air Force Base is within about 10

1149
00:55:53,940 --> 00:55:51,490
miles of there Norman and the police

1150
00:55:56,010 --> 00:55:53,950
officer saw this the the commander of

1151
00:55:56,349 --> 00:55:56,020
Pease came out and tried to tell the

1152
00:55:57,549 --> 00:55:56,359
people

1153
00:55:59,440 --> 00:55:57,559
who are gathering every night in the

1154
00:56:03,819 --> 00:55:59,450
field that what they were seeing were

1155
00:56:06,970 --> 00:56:03,829
tankers refueling airplanes yes yes I I

1156
00:56:08,499 --> 00:56:06,980
remember that that was their whole

1157
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:08,509
reasoning behind you know their whole

1158
00:56:14,620 --> 00:56:12,410
two bunking of it and that that didn't

1159
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:14,630
fit with any part of this really I mean

1160
00:56:19,870 --> 00:56:17,410
that's in a high altitude for one thing

1161
00:56:22,979 --> 00:56:19,880
you know when they refill they're not at

1162
00:56:26,109 --> 00:56:22,989
low altitude as far as I know you know

1163
00:56:29,769 --> 00:56:26,119
well tell the three tell the three

1164
00:56:32,470 --> 00:56:29,779
people including two police officers who

1165
00:56:34,539 --> 00:56:32,480
saw this thing hovering a hundred feet

1166
00:56:36,430 --> 00:56:34,549
and when to air force when the Air Force

1167
00:56:38,620 --> 00:56:36,440
tried to debunk those two police

1168
00:56:41,829 --> 00:56:38,630
officers one of whom was retired Air

1169
00:56:44,140 --> 00:56:41,839
Force when the Air Force tried to debunk

1170
00:56:46,690 --> 00:56:44,150
those guys they wrote the Air Force an

1171
00:56:47,950 --> 00:56:46,700
angry letter back I never heard that

1172
00:56:51,729 --> 00:56:47,960
part yeah

1173
00:56:54,609 --> 00:56:51,739
yes so yeah that's a that's a great

1174
00:56:57,180 --> 00:56:54,619
story and they they that's one of the

1175
00:56:59,829 --> 00:56:57,190
the real good ones and I've gone to the

1176
00:57:02,769 --> 00:56:59,839
celebration of that they have is put on

1177
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:02,779
by something like the Lions Club or or

1178
00:57:07,539 --> 00:57:05,410
something like that every year their

1179
00:57:09,940 --> 00:57:07,549
speakers come in from all over

1180
00:57:11,710 --> 00:57:09,950
it's always fun and it's still not that

1181
00:57:13,569 --> 00:57:11,720
far of a drive from where I live

1182
00:57:16,210 --> 00:57:13,579
I've gone there a number of times and

1183
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:16,220
last time I went Stan Freeman was there

1184
00:57:24,309 --> 00:57:20,930
and I you know as many times as I've

1185
00:57:26,979 --> 00:57:24,319
heard him speaking in person and on this

1186
00:57:30,249 --> 00:57:26,989
show I always loved hearing hearing him

1187
00:57:33,940 --> 00:57:30,259
talk he's great he was great he was big

1188
00:57:37,109 --> 00:57:33,950
loss but is there anything else you can

1189
00:57:39,220 --> 00:57:37,119
add about this particular sighting that

1190
00:57:43,630 --> 00:57:39,230
you found out while you're researching

1191
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:43,640
it yeah it's just that and I have talked

1192
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:45,650
to some other folks who actually were

1193
00:57:51,130 --> 00:57:48,170
witnesses to it and tried to avoid the

1194
00:57:54,460 --> 00:57:51,140
limelight none really wanted to talk on

1195
00:57:58,180 --> 00:57:54,470
record and I thought that you know the

1196
00:58:01,180 --> 00:57:58,190
fact that they hid and the community

1197
00:58:03,519 --> 00:58:01,190
knew but I'll tell you a little incident

1198
00:58:08,109 --> 00:58:03,529
that happened in time I had been there

1199
00:58:10,150 --> 00:58:08,119
well yes that's right very good just to

1200
00:58:17,380 --> 00:58:10,160
let you know that it was still in the

1201
00:58:20,430 --> 00:58:17,390
consciousness of those people I was

1202
00:58:23,410 --> 00:58:20,440
there at night and I was investigating

1203
00:58:24,940 --> 00:58:23,420
and on my last night's investigation I

1204
00:58:30,850 --> 00:58:24,950
had parked where I had been on a couple

1205
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:30,860
of other nights when I went to park in

1206
00:58:37,230 --> 00:58:32,810
my parking place which is this little

1207
00:58:42,550 --> 00:58:37,240
cleared moat area someone had parked a

1208
00:58:46,540 --> 00:58:42,560
25 foot long Komatsu front loader along

1209
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:46,550
with road scraping equipment brushes and

1210
00:58:53,350 --> 00:58:50,450
everything else and I thought I'm being

1211
00:58:57,970 --> 00:58:53,360
warned away these people don't want me

1212
00:59:01,060 --> 00:58:57,980
to park here so I squeezed my car my

1213
00:59:02,620 --> 00:59:01,070
rental car in between the front loader

1214
00:59:05,170 --> 00:59:02,630
and all the stuff they had scattered on

1215
00:59:08,620 --> 00:59:05,180
that grassy area and the tree line and

1216
00:59:13,140 --> 00:59:08,630
while I was sitting there I took a photo

1217
00:59:17,260 --> 00:59:13,150
of of the stuff for posterity I hear a

1218
00:59:18,850 --> 00:59:17,270
female voice coming through the window

1219
00:59:22,510 --> 00:59:18,860
of the driver's window I've now parked

1220
00:59:26,020 --> 00:59:22,520
the road is on my left and a woman's

1221
00:59:28,090 --> 00:59:26,030
voice says hi now it was so dark Martin

1222
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:28,100
I couldn't see in front of my face and

1223
00:59:34,270 --> 00:59:30,890
so it was just a disembodied voice so I

1224
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:34,280
said hi and the lady says well what are

1225
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:37,130
you doing here now you imagine my shock

1226
00:59:44,380 --> 00:59:40,730
I did not see or hear a car pull up next

1227
00:59:47,110 --> 00:59:44,390
to me so maybe she just snuck up on foot

1228
00:59:50,910 --> 00:59:47,120
I don't know but I couldn't tell because

1229
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:50,920
I couldn't see three feet so I said oh

1230
00:59:54,450 --> 00:59:53,210
quit you know my name is racer Man Singh

1231
00:59:56,500 --> 00:59:54,460
if I'm the Air Force I'm here to

1232
00:59:59,190 --> 00:59:56,510
reinvestigate this thing and I want to

1233
01:00:02,560 --> 00:59:59,200
see what it was like that night more uh

1234
01:00:05,940 --> 01:00:02,570
Norman was here and she stops she cuts

1235
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:05,950
me off she said they're not coming back

1236
01:00:15,310 --> 01:00:09,410
there's nothing here for you to see you

1237
01:00:18,940 --> 01:00:15,320
need to leave hmm now imagine what's

1238
01:00:20,470 --> 01:00:18,950
going through my mind it's late at night

1239
01:00:23,890 --> 01:00:20,480
or early in the morning take your choice

1240
01:00:28,559 --> 01:00:23,900
and I have a female

1241
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:28,569
on a lonely country single lane road

1242
01:00:36,099 --> 01:00:31,930
telling me to leave the area

1243
01:00:37,690 --> 01:00:36,109
hmm now I like alright you got a female

1244
01:00:38,710 --> 01:00:37,700
voice but you could be some hulking

1245
01:00:41,380 --> 01:00:38,720
person with a gun

1246
01:00:43,599 --> 01:00:41,390
I don't know cuz I can't see you so I

1247
01:00:45,819 --> 01:00:43,609
thought well maybe she didn't understand

1248
01:00:47,410 --> 01:00:45,829
what I said the first time so I went

1249
01:00:50,069 --> 01:00:47,420
through my story again that she cuts me

1250
01:00:53,259 --> 01:00:50,079
off and said they're not coming back

1251
01:01:00,809 --> 01:00:53,269
there's nothing here for you to see you

1252
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:00,819
need to leave weird hmm so long I had

1253
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:03,650
I'm sorry it's generally a very friendly

1254
01:01:08,559 --> 01:01:05,930
area very friendly people in the whole

1255
01:01:13,420 --> 01:01:08,569
area there so yeah that does sound kind

1256
01:01:15,009 --> 01:01:13,430
of strange I had waited years to go

1257
01:01:16,749 --> 01:01:15,019
there and do the investigation I'd spent

1258
01:01:19,150 --> 01:01:16,759
a couple years just research again

1259
01:01:21,039 --> 01:01:19,160
knowing I had few days and exactly what

1260
01:01:23,620 --> 01:01:21,049
I was going to do now I grew up in

1261
01:01:25,660 --> 01:01:23,630
Detroit now I'm pretty tough I spent a

1262
01:01:27,670 --> 01:01:25,670
lot of time on the streets five brothers

1263
01:01:28,329 --> 01:01:27,680
you know tons of buds in the

1264
01:01:31,239 --> 01:01:28,339
neighborhood

1265
01:01:35,019 --> 01:01:31,249
and I thought to myself you know you've

1266
01:01:40,289 --> 01:01:35,029
waited all this time to do this are you

1267
01:01:43,950 --> 01:01:40,299
gonna let some disembodied female voice

1268
01:01:48,519 --> 01:01:43,960
scare you away so you know what I did

1269
01:01:49,510 --> 01:01:48,529
what I got my skinny Detroit butt out of

1270
01:01:53,370 --> 01:01:49,520
there as fast as I could

1271
01:01:56,589 --> 01:01:53,380
[Laughter]

1272
01:01:59,170 --> 01:01:56,599
did you actually now if you go over to

1273
01:02:01,870 --> 01:01:59,180
peas now peas has all taken apart and

1274
01:02:04,769 --> 01:02:01,880
it's a you know a commercial building

1275
01:02:07,690 --> 01:02:04,779
but there's no way you could actually

1276
01:02:09,190 --> 01:02:07,700
speak with anyone over there but I'm

1277
01:02:11,140 --> 01:02:09,200
wonder if there was ever record now I

1278
01:02:15,069 --> 01:02:11,150
know what Betty and Barney Hill who was

1279
01:02:18,069 --> 01:02:15,079
actually a record at Pease Air Force

1280
01:02:21,130 --> 01:02:18,079
Base did you were you able to research

1281
01:02:24,579 --> 01:02:21,140
or try to research any documents on this

1282
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:24,589
as far as no but but again when you read

1283
01:02:29,890 --> 01:02:26,690
my book my first book what you're going

1284
01:02:33,999 --> 01:02:29,900
to find out is is that during the time

1285
01:02:38,020 --> 01:02:34,009
of the incident at Exeter Pease Air

1286
01:02:40,570 --> 01:02:38,030
Force Base was home to the 509

1287
01:02:44,110 --> 01:02:40,580
bomb group does that sound familiar to

1288
01:02:46,510 --> 01:02:44,120
you yeah they're the same group from

1289
01:02:49,450 --> 01:02:46,520
Roswell who dropped the atomic bombs

1290
01:02:53,260 --> 01:02:49,460
well they had been transferred to peas

1291
01:02:55,180 --> 01:02:53,270
and so peas restoring nuclear weapons so

1292
01:02:57,360 --> 01:02:55,190
if you want to know what the UFOs were

1293
01:03:00,040 --> 01:02:57,370
doing around that area at the time a

1294
01:03:01,990 --> 01:03:00,050
really good guess would be they're

1295
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:02,000
checking up on the nukes that piece was

1296
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:04,370
housing well do you know where where I

1297
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:07,010
grew up I grew up on top of a hill

1298
01:03:14,260 --> 01:03:09,610
called Winter Hill it was a property

1299
01:03:18,070 --> 01:03:14,270
that was a single farmhouse on top of a

1300
01:03:21,010 --> 01:03:18,080
hill overlooking the river and directly

1301
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:21,020
looking at Pease Air Force Base so I

1302
01:03:25,540 --> 01:03:23,090
could sit on my porch or sit on the

1303
01:03:27,580 --> 01:03:25,550
upper Hill and my sisters and I often

1304
01:03:29,740 --> 01:03:27,590
did because we saw like weather balloons

1305
01:03:31,930 --> 01:03:29,750
and stuff like that from there and we

1306
01:03:35,140 --> 01:03:31,940
would watch the planes land over a piece

1307
01:03:37,810 --> 01:03:35,150
it was probably as the crow flies as

1308
01:03:40,390 --> 01:03:37,820
they say probably five miles away but

1309
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:40,400
you still could see them coming out you

1310
01:03:45,010 --> 01:03:43,370
know landing and and flying and anytime

1311
01:03:46,420 --> 01:03:45,020
there was the Blue Angels there or

1312
01:03:49,930 --> 01:03:46,430
something like that it was a lot of fun

1313
01:03:52,780 --> 01:03:49,940
living where we did and there was also a

1314
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:52,790
crash I remember being sitting at the

1315
01:03:56,620 --> 01:03:54,650
dinner table and all of a sudden the

1316
01:03:59,440 --> 01:03:56,630
lamp on the ceiling moving back and

1317
01:04:03,580 --> 01:03:59,450
forth it was a crash f18 or something

1318
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:03,590
like that but it's funny when in the 60s

1319
01:04:08,950 --> 01:04:05,930
back then when there was I guess there

1320
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:08,960
was a UFO wave or a flap in that whole

1321
01:04:11,890 --> 01:04:10,010
area

1322
01:04:16,270 --> 01:04:11,900
I do remember sitting out with my

1323
01:04:18,940 --> 01:04:16,280
sisters on the lawn we were looking for

1324
01:04:20,770 --> 01:04:18,950
UFOs and then you know over the years I

1325
01:04:23,530 --> 01:04:20,780
kind of forgot about all that until I

1326
01:04:26,490 --> 01:04:23,540
actually had a sighting but have you

1327
01:04:27,610 --> 01:04:26,500
yourself ever had any type of sighting a

1328
01:04:34,750 --> 01:04:27,620
sighting

1329
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:34,760
momentarily there I've actually had one

1330
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:36,890
that I can say a hundred percent for

1331
01:04:42,580 --> 01:04:39,890
sure was not ours and then I had one at

1332
01:04:47,710 --> 01:04:42,590
long distance so the most important one

1333
01:04:49,810 --> 01:04:47,720
was 2011 first week of December I was

1334
01:04:51,940 --> 01:04:49,820
coming back from a physical therapy

1335
01:04:55,599 --> 01:04:51,950
appointment because I'd been in the

1336
01:04:57,490 --> 01:04:55,609
rekka you earlier and I was kind of you

1337
01:04:59,800 --> 01:04:57,500
know on the men so I was coming home and

1338
01:05:01,660 --> 01:04:59,810
we had a really low ceiling you know

1339
01:05:05,579 --> 01:05:01,670
some days we get a ceiling here 100 feet

1340
01:05:08,829 --> 01:05:05,589
and I was coming home and something

1341
01:05:11,980 --> 01:05:08,839
light broke it was a very overcast low

1342
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:11,990
low ceiling but a shadowy thing broke

1343
01:05:17,829 --> 01:05:15,170
the light of my moon roof and I only

1344
01:05:19,780 --> 01:05:17,839
live a few miles from my patterson so

1345
01:05:23,319 --> 01:05:19,790
I'm used to that happening all the time

1346
01:05:26,650 --> 01:05:23,329
of planes coming in especially now with

1347
01:05:29,230 --> 01:05:26,660
you know with the war going on and but

1348
01:05:32,349 --> 01:05:29,240
the thing that struck me is is despite

1349
01:05:34,569 --> 01:05:32,359
the fact that the window was closed my

1350
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:34,579
shade was pulled open but I didn't hear

1351
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:37,250
a noise and usually you know I got a c5

1352
01:05:43,359 --> 01:05:40,490
going over the car shake so I thought it

1353
01:05:45,670 --> 01:05:43,369
was unusual and I could just tell by the

1354
01:05:47,260 --> 01:05:45,680
way the light happened that it was gonna

1355
01:05:49,690 --> 01:05:47,270
come down and I could look to the front

1356
01:05:53,079 --> 01:05:49,700
windshield and and when I looked down I

1357
01:05:55,470 --> 01:05:53,089
am I'm trying to stop for traffic at a

1358
01:06:01,750 --> 01:05:55,480
traffic light and what I eventually

1359
01:06:05,309 --> 01:06:01,760
estimated to be a 90 foot wide craft I

1360
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:05,319
got about a seven-second look on it and

1361
01:06:12,579 --> 01:06:09,250
in my first book alien shades of Gray's

1362
01:06:14,740 --> 01:06:12,589
there is a photograph of that

1363
01:06:18,250 --> 01:06:14,750
intersection and I took a graphics

1364
01:06:20,829 --> 01:06:18,260
program and I drew in what I saw and I

1365
01:06:25,230 --> 01:06:20,839
saw the tail end of this craft which was

1366
01:06:30,730 --> 01:06:25,240
about 90 foot long so that's that's a

1367
01:06:33,819 --> 01:06:30,740
100% no doubt it wasn't ours and then a

1368
01:06:35,950 --> 01:06:33,829
handful of years earlier I was doing

1369
01:06:37,930 --> 01:06:35,960
some satellite watching using the

1370
01:06:39,309 --> 01:06:37,940
heavens above website you know tells you

1371
01:06:42,910 --> 01:06:39,319
where all the satellites are gonna be

1372
01:06:44,770 --> 01:06:42,920
right and um it was July was beautiful

1373
01:06:46,510 --> 01:06:44,780
crisp clear I was looking to the west

1374
01:06:50,079 --> 01:06:46,520
and it was this big bright satellite

1375
01:06:54,220 --> 01:06:50,089
command and then I realized it had two

1376
01:06:57,900 --> 01:06:54,230
objects with it so they kind of form

1377
01:07:01,359 --> 01:06:57,910
like an angle like this so you had one

1378
01:07:05,550 --> 01:07:01,369
super bright object here the satellite

1379
01:07:07,950 --> 01:07:05,560
in the middle and down here was another

1380
01:07:12,870 --> 01:07:07,960
four bright object and they tracked

1381
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:12,880
across the sky as one and um it was it

1382
01:07:17,220 --> 01:07:15,850
was mind-blowing but it was obviously up

1383
01:07:19,770 --> 01:07:17,230
at the height of the satellite but a

1384
01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:19,780
mansion you know if the satellites

1385
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:22,330
supposed to be there by itself what's

1386
01:07:28,590 --> 01:07:26,530
next to it yeah and it it definitely was

1387
01:07:30,930 --> 01:07:28,600
not the Space Station because I checked

1388
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:30,940
all the you know sites and you know was

1389
01:07:35,130 --> 01:07:32,410
on the other side of planet Earth at

1390
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:35,140
that time so there is no explanation

1391
01:07:40,350 --> 01:07:37,930
that I have for those three lights and

1392
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:40,360
that the two that were kind of like

1393
01:07:47,090 --> 01:07:41,290
escorting it

1394
01:07:50,790 --> 01:07:47,100
we're like arc welding intensity Wow and

1395
01:07:52,650 --> 01:07:50,800
the other standard yeah reflective

1396
01:07:55,230 --> 01:07:52,660
satellite kind of stuff Wow

1397
01:07:57,540 --> 01:07:55,240
you know I know that um a lot of times

1398
01:08:00,120 --> 01:07:57,550
you will see a pretty sometimes you will

1399
01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:00,130
see a fairly bright reflection I'm sure

1400
01:08:07,230 --> 01:08:03,570
you know that from the Sun as a

1401
01:08:09,900 --> 01:08:07,240
satellites going but it goes out

1402
01:08:13,350 --> 01:08:09,910
eventually or dims or you know as its

1403
01:08:15,870 --> 01:08:13,360
passing through the shadow of our planet

1404
01:08:18,750 --> 01:08:15,880
there some of Bobby had sent me Bobby

1405
01:08:22,200 --> 01:08:18,760
whose calls in now and then from North

1406
01:08:25,140 --> 01:08:22,210
Carolina had sent me a video that as an

1407
01:08:27,180 --> 01:08:25,150
astronomer took of the moon I'm gonna

1408
01:08:29,099 --> 01:08:27,190
look into it more it looks pretty

1409
01:08:30,980 --> 01:08:29,109
amazing but I don't know what it is

1410
01:08:33,140 --> 01:08:30,990
it almost looks like a fleet of UFOs

1411
01:08:35,700 --> 01:08:33,150
going over the surface of the Moon

1412
01:08:37,620 --> 01:08:35,710
shadowing shadows across the moon and

1413
01:08:39,630 --> 01:08:37,630
everything it's pretty interesting again

1414
01:08:41,910 --> 01:08:39,640
yeah that's been debunked I was just

1415
01:08:45,440 --> 01:08:41,920
gonna say again there's so much CGI out

1416
01:08:48,990 --> 01:08:45,450
there is that what it is is a CGI ownio

1417
01:08:53,780 --> 01:08:49,000
Mark Dantonio who's a CGI world-class

1418
01:08:57,090 --> 01:08:53,790
expert he he'd debunk it and in in a

1419
01:08:59,400 --> 01:08:57,100
massive massive amounts of technical

1420
01:09:02,340 --> 01:08:59,410
detail mark will make your head spin ya

1421
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:02,350
know I've known 20 years yeah yeah he

1422
01:09:05,610 --> 01:09:04,810
went every aspect of it and he flat-out

1423
01:09:08,340 --> 01:09:05,620
debunked it

1424
01:09:10,470 --> 01:09:08,350
oh that it's good to know so another one

1425
01:09:11,849 --> 01:09:10,480
Bobby sent me this is like the second or

1426
01:09:16,590 --> 01:09:11,859
third one he sent me has been debunked

1427
01:09:19,139 --> 01:09:16,600
by Mark but yeah that's it's well done

1428
01:09:21,569 --> 01:09:19,149
for the average person you

1429
01:09:24,569 --> 01:09:21,579
that is skimming through YouTube and I

1430
01:09:27,959 --> 01:09:24,579
say watcher beware if you're looking

1431
01:09:28,469 --> 01:09:27,969
through YouTube this this is how I'd put

1432
01:09:31,019 --> 01:09:28,479
it

1433
01:09:34,229 --> 01:09:31,029
I would say that UFO videos on YouTube

1434
01:09:37,469 --> 01:09:34,239
are guilty till proven innocent it's the

1435
01:09:40,109 --> 01:09:37,479
best way you can put it really I

1436
01:09:42,089 --> 01:09:40,119
wouldn't trust that's right yeah I

1437
01:09:44,549 --> 01:09:42,099
wouldn't trust too many of them don't ya

1438
01:09:47,249 --> 01:09:44,559
don't ya waste your time he's a good

1439
01:09:48,779 --> 01:09:47,259
Stanton Friedman book you know don't

1440
01:09:49,229 --> 01:09:48,789
waste your time on YouTube you drive me

1441
01:09:51,779 --> 01:09:49,239
nuts

1442
01:09:54,659 --> 01:09:51,789
yeah that's right that's right so let's

1443
01:09:57,029 --> 01:09:54,669
let's talk about I don't know you said

1444
01:09:59,790 --> 01:09:57,039
you'd also have Travis Walton in that

1445
01:10:02,279 --> 01:09:59,800
book as well I've known Travis for

1446
01:10:04,500 --> 01:10:02,289
several years he's someone that I

1447
01:10:06,959 --> 01:10:04,510
actually trust and have looked I to I

1448
01:10:08,879 --> 01:10:06,969
and had a discussion with many

1449
01:10:10,500 --> 01:10:08,889
discussions with him and I'm I know you

1450
01:10:14,369 --> 01:10:10,510
did too so let's talk about your

1451
01:10:16,949 --> 01:10:14,379
situation with Travis well I was at the

1452
01:10:19,049 --> 01:10:16,959
International UFO Congress and I met

1453
01:10:23,250 --> 01:10:19,059
Jennifer Stein and she had just wrapped

1454
01:10:26,790 --> 01:10:23,260
a movie Travis yeah and I had told her

1455
01:10:30,419 --> 01:10:26,800
that I was a photographer and I was

1456
01:10:32,549 --> 01:10:30,429
going I didn't have the GPS coordinates

1457
01:10:34,770 --> 01:10:32,559
of Travis's site but I'd researched it

1458
01:10:36,929 --> 01:10:34,780
for a couple of years and I had a pretty

1459
01:10:39,869 --> 01:10:36,939
good idea that I could find it on my own

1460
01:10:41,429 --> 01:10:39,879
and she said you know what I was gonna

1461
01:10:42,689 --> 01:10:41,439
ask me what I was gonna do up there and

1462
01:10:44,790 --> 01:10:42,699
I said well I just want to do some

1463
01:10:46,290 --> 01:10:44,800
research I I like to go and you know

1464
01:10:50,129 --> 01:10:46,300
kind of get the feel of the site I want

1465
01:10:52,949 --> 01:10:50,139
to look around and she said well um if

1466
01:10:55,560 --> 01:10:52,959
you would do me a favor and take some

1467
01:10:57,839 --> 01:10:55,570
photos of these tree stumps up there I

1468
01:11:03,029 --> 01:10:57,849
know somebody who can help you find the

1469
01:11:04,439 --> 01:11:03,039
site so I said sure I could use some

1470
01:11:08,369 --> 01:11:04,449
help next thing I know she's yelling

1471
01:11:10,020 --> 01:11:08,379
over hey Travis get over here and Travis

1472
01:11:12,270 --> 01:11:10,030
was down the other end of the table we

1473
01:11:14,310 --> 01:11:12,280
were all eating dinner and so he comes

1474
01:11:16,409 --> 01:11:14,320
up she introduces me and a couple days

1475
01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:16,419
later Travis and I I got him in the back

1476
01:11:22,020 --> 01:11:19,449
of my 4x4 and we're driving through the

1477
01:11:24,389 --> 01:11:22,030
apache-sitgreaves National Forest and

1478
01:11:28,290 --> 01:11:24,399
he's directing me right to the site of

1479
01:11:32,129 --> 01:11:28,300
his incident so we spent the very cold

1480
01:11:32,630 --> 01:11:32,139
February afternoon he's showing me where

1481
01:11:35,030 --> 01:11:32,640
the

1482
01:11:37,700 --> 01:11:35,040
was and what tree stumps to shoot and

1483
01:11:40,850 --> 01:11:37,710
eventually the the little research

1484
01:11:43,340 --> 01:11:40,860
project that I did for for Jennifer got

1485
01:11:47,570 --> 01:11:43,350
incorporated into the movie Travis I

1486
01:11:51,350 --> 01:11:47,580
mean in fact Fermi did this have to do

1487
01:11:54,740 --> 01:11:51,360
with the unusual tree rings yes the

1488
01:11:57,500 --> 01:11:54,750
growth is exponentially larger for each

1489
01:11:59,480 --> 01:11:57,510
of the trees in the direction of where

1490
01:12:02,630 --> 01:11:59,490
the UFO was hovering it was like a

1491
01:12:03,950 --> 01:12:02,640
magnet like it it sucked the the trees

1492
01:12:06,410 --> 01:12:03,960
toward there and now I did a lot of

1493
01:12:11,990 --> 01:12:06,420
research about what can cause that and

1494
01:12:14,600 --> 01:12:12,000
it turns out that for any of the reasons

1495
01:12:17,060 --> 01:12:14,610
the the natural reasons to actually

1496
01:12:18,230 --> 01:12:17,070
cover it the growth would have to be in

1497
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:18,240
the same direction

1498
01:12:26,500 --> 01:12:23,370
it'd be like water availability wind you

1499
01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:26,510
know several other natural phenomena but

1500
01:12:32,570 --> 01:12:29,130
since they were growing towards a

1501
01:12:35,630 --> 01:12:32,580
centroid a center point you could throw

1502
01:12:37,820 --> 01:12:35,640
all of those excuses out the window so I

1503
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:37,830
I went up there were Travis we spent the

1504
01:12:43,250 --> 01:12:41,610
day doing that and then it was really

1505
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:43,260
weird was getting laid the Sun was going

1506
01:12:48,530 --> 01:12:45,570
down and we're standing at the point

1507
01:12:50,450 --> 01:12:48,540
where it happened and he started telling

1508
01:12:52,040 --> 01:12:50,460
me about it and he said he said could

1509
01:12:54,440 --> 01:12:52,050
you see that road down there and I said

1510
01:12:56,450 --> 01:12:54,450
what kind of David goes well it's really

1511
01:12:58,760 --> 01:12:56,460
not used anymore because that was an old

1512
01:13:00,170 --> 01:12:58,770
logging road says we were coming up that

1513
01:13:01,760 --> 01:13:00,180
road he goes and we were looking in this

1514
01:13:04,460 --> 01:13:01,770
direction because we thought we saw a

1515
01:13:06,710 --> 01:13:04,470
forest fire and he's pointing and he's

1516
01:13:07,940 --> 01:13:06,720
telling me now I'd spent that afternoon

1517
01:13:11,060 --> 01:13:07,950
you know with a ladder

1518
01:13:13,700 --> 01:13:11,070
scraping chiseling ice off of these tree

1519
01:13:15,470 --> 01:13:13,710
stumps and taking photos and logging in

1520
01:13:18,230 --> 01:13:15,480
my book and drawing them and you know

1521
01:13:20,510 --> 01:13:18,240
doing the researching thing and he

1522
01:13:23,330 --> 01:13:20,520
starts to tell me this story and it was

1523
01:13:26,900 --> 01:13:23,340
just like I don't know I'm one of those

1524
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:26,910
holy moments and he's telling me the

1525
01:13:32,150 --> 01:13:30,570
story about driving up and how he got

1526
01:13:35,540 --> 01:13:32,160
out and everything that happened and

1527
01:13:38,870 --> 01:13:35,550
there I am at the site with the guy and

1528
01:13:40,910 --> 01:13:38,880
he's telling me the story and you know

1529
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:40,920
then I get to look him in the eyes that

1530
01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:43,770
like ask him a couple questions and you

1531
01:13:50,040 --> 01:13:46,770
can see him relive

1532
01:13:52,590 --> 01:13:50,050
right there and of course you know I

1533
01:13:54,450 --> 01:13:52,600
include that in in alien shades of

1534
01:13:56,670 --> 01:13:54,460
Gray's and some other things you know

1535
01:13:59,430 --> 01:13:56,680
because Travis can be a funny guy and we

1536
01:14:01,380 --> 01:13:59,440
had some funny things happen and and you

1537
01:14:03,150 --> 01:14:01,390
know there's more to Travis than just

1538
01:14:05,700 --> 01:14:03,160
that incident oh yeah and I include a

1539
01:14:08,370 --> 01:14:05,710
lot of that in the chapter I found

1540
01:14:11,490 --> 01:14:08,380
Travis to be very intelligent first of

1541
01:14:12,930 --> 01:14:11,500
all and I've had many conversations with

1542
01:14:15,690 --> 01:14:12,940
him that had nothing to do with his

1543
01:14:18,750 --> 01:14:15,700
incident and yeah he's he's really

1544
01:14:21,120 --> 01:14:18,760
there's there is a lot of layers to that

1545
01:14:25,110 --> 01:14:21,130
onion when it comes to Travis he's he's

1546
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:25,120
very very interesting guy and and you

1547
01:14:31,140 --> 01:14:29,050
know I mean the thing that I I got out

1548
01:14:32,820 --> 01:14:31,150
of that the whole incident or whatever

1549
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:32,830
that the two things that I think are

1550
01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:36,010
really strange is or whatever is the

1551
01:14:43,110 --> 01:14:39,730
eyes of the aliens if you want to call

1552
01:14:45,570 --> 01:14:43,120
them aliens whatever they were that was

1553
01:14:48,900 --> 01:14:45,580
the the scariest part for him he said

1554
01:14:51,570 --> 01:14:48,910
that the eyes were you know just staring

1555
01:14:55,410 --> 01:14:51,580
at him just scared the heck out of him

1556
01:14:56,640 --> 01:14:55,420
you know and and I also asked him I

1557
01:14:59,790 --> 01:14:56,650
don't know if you asked him about the

1558
01:15:02,340 --> 01:14:59,800
movie fire in the sky what he thought

1559
01:15:03,450 --> 01:15:02,350
about it did you talk to him about the

1560
01:15:06,140 --> 01:15:03,460
movie because I know there was some

1561
01:15:10,830 --> 01:15:06,150
definite differences in the real story

1562
01:15:12,810 --> 01:15:10,840
yeah I think what I remember is first of

1563
01:15:15,900 --> 01:15:12,820
all he told me he had a cameo in it and

1564
01:15:18,510 --> 01:15:15,910
where to find it so there's a whole town

1565
01:15:19,770 --> 01:15:18,520
meet there's a town meeting and he's in

1566
01:15:22,950 --> 01:15:19,780
the back of the room in the I they

1567
01:15:25,740 --> 01:15:22,960
actually a pan across and so he's in the

1568
01:15:28,500 --> 01:15:25,750
movie I never knew that doesn't yes he

1569
01:15:31,790 --> 01:15:28,510
he doesn't he did a cameo and then he

1570
01:15:33,360 --> 01:15:31,800
just told me that it was a very loose

1571
01:15:35,850 --> 01:15:33,370
Hollywood ization

1572
01:15:39,270 --> 01:15:35,860
of the story and he you know he was

1573
01:15:42,990 --> 01:15:39,280
happy that it got attention but you know

1574
01:15:44,790 --> 01:15:43,000
the core story is good they just played

1575
01:15:47,850 --> 01:15:44,800
loosey-goosey with a lot of the facts

1576
01:15:50,010 --> 01:15:47,860
yeah and the fact that you know he

1577
01:15:50,730 --> 01:15:50,020
thought he was on board for such a short

1578
01:15:53,370 --> 01:15:50,740
period of time

1579
01:15:56,550 --> 01:15:53,380
and it was five days he was missing

1580
01:15:59,790 --> 01:15:56,560
right five days days yeah five days yeah

1581
01:16:02,189 --> 01:15:59,800
and do you agree that you think

1582
01:16:07,049 --> 01:16:02,199
that's a solid story I mean solid to me

1583
01:16:10,680 --> 01:16:07,059
I tell everybody that the Travis Walton

1584
01:16:13,669 --> 01:16:10,690
story is in the top three if not number

1585
01:16:16,200 --> 01:16:13,679
one and you know I I'm a believer in

1586
01:16:18,299 --> 01:16:16,210
hypnotic regression up to a point and

1587
01:16:19,770 --> 01:16:18,309
you know there's so much negative you

1588
01:16:23,209 --> 01:16:19,780
can throw at it but think about it

1589
01:16:27,569 --> 01:16:23,219
a hypnotically regressed memory is

1590
01:16:30,660 --> 01:16:27,579
legally admissible in a court of law so

1591
01:16:33,149 --> 01:16:30,670
if if you know if you're trying to come

1592
01:16:36,359 --> 01:16:33,159
up with a detail or more of the core

1593
01:16:39,030 --> 01:16:36,369
story that is admissible in in a court

1594
01:16:42,030 --> 01:16:39,040
of law so if you think about this you

1595
01:16:45,569 --> 01:16:42,040
had seven guys one who had the physical

1596
01:16:48,120 --> 01:16:45,579
evidence you know on his body and you

1597
01:16:51,870 --> 01:16:48,130
had six witnesses with absolutely zero

1598
01:16:55,530 --> 01:16:51,880
to gain and everything to lose and each

1599
01:16:57,450 --> 01:16:55,540
one of them passed multiple detector

1600
01:17:00,180 --> 01:16:57,460
tests you know the strength of that

1601
01:17:03,149 --> 01:17:00,190
story in it as far as I'm concerned is

1602
01:17:07,439 --> 01:17:03,159
is irrefutable and then look at how hard

1603
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:07,449
people like Phillip ass tried to just

1604
01:17:12,750 --> 01:17:10,210
lump that story yeah yeah follow up no

1605
01:17:15,810 --> 01:17:12,760
class yeah I call him Phillip ass and

1606
01:17:17,399 --> 01:17:15,820
others you know if it if it didn't have

1607
01:17:19,260 --> 01:17:17,409
any basis they wouldn't have wasted

1608
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:19,270
their time I mean they offered a guy ten

1609
01:17:24,569 --> 01:17:21,570
thousand dollars and Eve you know yeah

1610
01:17:27,870 --> 01:17:24,579
yeah they did everything they could so

1611
01:17:30,270 --> 01:17:27,880
you know the old smoke and fire and it's

1612
01:17:35,459 --> 01:17:30,280
definitely a pleasure for me it's slam

1613
01:17:37,020 --> 01:17:35,469
dunk slam dunk city yeah yeah also you

1614
01:17:39,510 --> 01:17:37,030
know when I talk to him about being

1615
01:17:41,910 --> 01:17:39,520
regressed he was regressed one time I do

1616
01:17:44,010 --> 01:17:41,920
believe and he said they never wanted to

1617
01:17:47,129 --> 01:17:44,020
do it again he's scared to do it again

1618
01:17:49,049 --> 01:17:47,139
if that's if I if I have my facts right

1619
01:17:50,280 --> 01:17:49,059
I do believe that's what he told me it

1620
01:17:52,979 --> 01:17:50,290
may have been someone else do you know

1621
01:17:56,700 --> 01:17:52,989
what about that situation about him

1622
01:18:00,299 --> 01:17:56,710
being regressed I I understand he's been

1623
01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:00,309
regressed at least once and I never

1624
01:18:04,740 --> 01:18:01,690
heard the fact that he wouldn't do it

1625
01:18:07,260 --> 01:18:04,750
again but knowing what I know about

1626
01:18:10,310 --> 01:18:07,270
regressions and what comes out people

1627
01:18:13,410 --> 01:18:10,320
actually relive that I mean you can yeah

1628
01:18:15,600 --> 01:18:13,420
if you can find

1629
01:18:17,820 --> 01:18:15,610
John burrows regressions I think Linda

1630
01:18:20,760 --> 01:18:17,830
Moulton Howe had him when John burrows

1631
01:18:22,350 --> 01:18:20,770
was being regressed it's scary you know

1632
01:18:25,169 --> 01:18:22,360
he's a Rendlesham witness he was out

1633
01:18:28,110 --> 01:18:25,179
there yeah he was shaking he was he you

1634
01:18:30,030 --> 01:18:28,120
know Penniston was was near that also so

1635
01:18:32,820 --> 01:18:30,040
you know these people are reliving it

1636
01:18:35,100 --> 01:18:32,830
and I'll tell you this about Travis I

1637
01:18:37,620 --> 01:18:35,110
maybe had a handful of conversations

1638
01:18:39,360 --> 01:18:37,630
with them in my life the longest was the

1639
01:18:41,520 --> 01:18:39,370
day I spent with them I literally spent

1640
01:18:43,620 --> 01:18:41,530
an entire afternoon we went to dinner

1641
01:18:46,560 --> 01:18:43,630
that night he came back to my room after

1642
01:18:51,169 --> 01:18:46,570
dinner we had coffee and tea we chatted

1643
01:18:54,959 --> 01:18:51,179
for an hour but every time I see him I

1644
01:18:58,410 --> 01:18:54,969
look in his eyes and he's reliving that

1645
01:19:01,890 --> 01:18:58,420
yeah every moment and there's a lot of

1646
01:19:05,610 --> 01:19:01,900
there's a lot of pain there and you know

1647
01:19:07,320 --> 01:19:05,620
he's he has told me that he he there's

1648
01:19:10,080 --> 01:19:07,330
been many years where he wanted to just

1649
01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:10,090
step away from this and and you know

1650
01:19:14,820 --> 01:19:11,890
kind of put it on the back burner and

1651
01:19:17,640 --> 01:19:14,830
and not have anything to do with it but

1652
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:17,650
he also gets involved with people online

1653
01:19:23,939 --> 01:19:21,610
that are bashing him he'll directly get

1654
01:19:26,430 --> 01:19:23,949
involved and reply to you know some

1655
01:19:30,900 --> 01:19:26,440
people trying to debunk the case which i

1656
01:19:33,540 --> 01:19:30,910
think is it that must be hard to do for

1657
01:19:35,459 --> 01:19:33,550
him because I you know you get involved

1658
01:19:35,970 --> 01:19:35,469
with people that are bashing you like

1659
01:19:41,370 --> 01:19:35,980
trolls

1660
01:19:44,189 --> 01:19:41,380
let them do their thing and let them go

1661
01:19:47,850 --> 01:19:44,199
you know forget about them but anyway

1662
01:19:49,380 --> 01:19:47,860
the lines are open and for those of you

1663
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:49,390
on YouTube you can see it up on the

1664
01:19:54,630 --> 01:19:51,010
screen the phone number eight five five

1665
01:19:57,570 --> 01:19:54,640
four seven two five four eight three if

1666
01:19:59,640 --> 01:19:57,580
you over at kg are a radio to that

1667
01:20:01,830 --> 01:19:59,650
number one more time is eight five five

1668
01:20:04,350 --> 01:20:01,840
four seven two five four eight three if

1669
01:20:08,220 --> 01:20:04,360
we have a question for our guests feel

1670
01:20:13,320 --> 01:20:08,230
free to call in so you spent this time

1671
01:20:15,750 --> 01:20:13,330
with Travis and did you you said that

1672
01:20:17,250 --> 01:20:15,760
the tree the tree stumps that is

1673
01:20:19,709 --> 01:20:17,260
something that you because I had heard

1674
01:20:21,900 --> 01:20:19,719
about that when it happened when they

1675
01:20:27,009 --> 01:20:21,910
discovered those tree stumps and they

1676
01:20:28,809 --> 01:20:27,019
the unnatural formation of the Rings was

1677
01:20:30,519 --> 01:20:28,819
something that you actually discovered

1678
01:20:34,389 --> 01:20:30,529
or did they find it before and just want

1679
01:20:36,189 --> 01:20:34,399
you to photograph it I had discovered

1680
01:20:38,229 --> 01:20:36,199
that through my research somebody else

1681
01:20:40,899 --> 01:20:38,239
had discovered it because they cut down

1682
01:20:45,250 --> 01:20:40,909
and they did you know some investigation

1683
01:20:49,149 --> 01:20:45,260
but when they film the movie they did

1684
01:20:52,349 --> 01:20:49,159
not get any still shots of those trees

1685
01:20:55,719 --> 01:20:52,359
and they really didn't do any kind of

1686
01:20:57,099 --> 01:20:55,729
evaluation of the site as as a whole you

1687
01:20:59,049 --> 01:20:57,109
know they just looked at these things as

1688
01:21:01,689 --> 01:20:59,059
onesies and when I went in there I

1689
01:21:03,819 --> 01:21:01,699
recognized the pattern and then I did

1690
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:03,829
all my measurements and you know Travis

1691
01:21:09,399 --> 01:21:06,010
pointed where the craft was and so I

1692
01:21:11,319 --> 01:21:09,409
wrote a report for Jen Stein I forwarded

1693
01:21:14,739 --> 01:21:11,329
to her said do with it as as you wish

1694
01:21:17,769 --> 01:21:14,749
and then it was incorporated a couple of

1695
01:21:20,919 --> 01:21:17,779
the photographs and and and they reused

1696
01:21:23,019 --> 01:21:20,929
my analysis but they pretty dit up and

1697
01:21:25,509 --> 01:21:23,029
did some other graphics to it and so

1698
01:21:27,759 --> 01:21:25,519
they took my data and and made a story

1699
01:21:32,319 --> 01:21:27,769
of it and incorporated it into the movie

1700
01:21:36,299 --> 01:21:32,329
so not my original discovery but my kind

1701
01:21:39,399 --> 01:21:36,309
of advancing that into a more solid

1702
01:21:43,629 --> 01:21:39,409
factoid is where I made a contribution

1703
01:21:45,819 --> 01:21:43,639
I see we do have a call coming in our

1704
01:21:48,399 --> 01:21:45,829
screener is not picking it up yet there

1705
01:21:53,049 --> 01:21:48,409
yes okay so we're gonna be taking a call

1706
01:21:56,409 --> 01:21:53,059
in just a second so as far as that as

1707
01:21:58,329 --> 01:21:56,419
far as that case goes I think it's a

1708
01:22:01,839 --> 01:21:58,339
solid one now they were talking about

1709
01:22:04,179 --> 01:22:01,849
doing another theatrical movie on that

1710
01:22:07,089 --> 01:22:04,189
like a an updated movie do you have you

1711
01:22:09,519 --> 01:22:07,099
heard anything about that I haven't but

1712
01:22:11,109 --> 01:22:09,529
I wouldn't bother I would get Jen

1713
01:22:11,829 --> 01:22:11,119
Stein's version of the movie called

1714
01:22:16,479 --> 01:22:11,839
Travis

1715
01:22:18,789 --> 01:22:16,489
they've got you know the other guys that

1716
01:22:21,669 --> 01:22:18,799
were involved in it it's very factual

1717
01:22:23,169 --> 01:22:21,679
it's not quite documentary it's not the

1718
01:22:25,839 --> 01:22:23,179
entertainment you know the James Garner

1719
01:22:29,500 --> 01:22:25,849
is the sheriff guy coming in but it's

1720
01:22:32,709 --> 01:22:29,510
very entertaining and you know we need

1721
01:22:35,919 --> 01:22:32,719
more of the gen Stein kind of approach

1722
01:22:38,229 --> 01:22:35,929
and less History Channel you know where

1723
01:22:40,100 --> 01:22:38,239
they've got a storyline and you know

1724
01:22:41,870 --> 01:22:40,110
that sort of thing so

1725
01:22:45,410 --> 01:22:41,880
I really enjoy Jan and I would recommend

1726
01:22:47,510 --> 01:22:45,420
anybody who wants you know like a real

1727
01:22:49,580 --> 01:22:47,520
easy version do that but get Travis

1728
01:22:52,129 --> 01:22:49,590
Waltons book fire in the sky and you can

1729
01:22:54,020 --> 01:22:52,139
order one and he'll he'll autograph it

1730
01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:54,030
for you yeah that's right so order it

1731
01:22:56,689 --> 01:22:54,570
online

1732
01:22:58,160 --> 01:22:56,699
tell him you want an autograph but it's

1733
01:23:00,379 --> 01:22:58,170
a brilliant piece of work

1734
01:23:02,060 --> 01:23:00,389
brilliant yeah and he has a website for

1735
01:23:03,890 --> 01:23:02,070
anyone out there you can easily find

1736
01:23:07,070 --> 01:23:03,900
even I think he even puts his email on

1737
01:23:09,229 --> 01:23:07,080
his website he was telling me all the

1738
01:23:11,780 --> 01:23:09,239
people that he gets constantly it's

1739
01:23:13,910 --> 01:23:11,790
pretty interesting or emailing him and

1740
01:23:15,890 --> 01:23:13,920
and calling him I think he even puts his

1741
01:23:18,439 --> 01:23:15,900
phone number on there I don't know if

1742
01:23:22,040 --> 01:23:18,449
I'd do that but anyway we have Ryan

1743
01:23:26,240 --> 01:23:22,050
calling from South Carolina Ryan welcome

1744
01:23:30,080 --> 01:23:26,250
to the show hey Martin how you doing

1745
01:23:31,939 --> 01:23:30,090
alright good to hear from you thank you

1746
01:23:38,240 --> 01:23:31,949
for the t-shirt by the way it came all

1747
01:23:40,640 --> 01:23:38,250
right finally shirt yeah oh oh he wants

1748
01:23:45,620 --> 01:23:40,650
one you got a question for our guest

1749
01:23:48,020 --> 01:23:45,630
tonight right yeah I do I guess I'll

1750
01:23:51,050 --> 01:23:48,030
keep my thoughts on Travis Walton to

1751
01:23:54,229 --> 01:23:51,060
myself but anyway to get back to the

1752
01:23:57,350 --> 01:23:54,239
wright-patterson deal um I wanted to ask

1753
01:24:02,060 --> 01:23:57,360
him his thoughts on hangar 18 in it

1754
01:24:07,250 --> 01:24:02,070
that's in his book it's not in my book

1755
01:24:09,350 --> 01:24:07,260
during my my talks I do do that I

1756
01:24:12,109 --> 01:24:09,360
discuss it and I'll tell you I actually

1757
01:24:15,680 --> 01:24:12,119
cancelled a talk that was scheduled for

1758
01:24:16,729 --> 01:24:15,690
the 6th of May in Myrtle Beach it was at

1759
01:24:19,100 --> 01:24:16,739
they're going to be at the North Myrtle

1760
01:24:20,930 --> 01:24:19,110
Beach library I I show up there every

1761
01:24:25,100 --> 01:24:20,940
year and give a talk usually the first

1762
01:24:28,010 --> 01:24:25,110
week of May so check my facebook page

1763
01:24:30,859 --> 01:24:28,020
for next year anyway hangar 18 here's my

1764
01:24:33,950 --> 01:24:30,869
thoughts I don't believe we need a

1765
01:24:36,530 --> 01:24:33,960
hangar 18 for Wright Patterson and and

1766
01:24:39,680 --> 01:24:36,540
it's connection to UFOs to actually be

1767
01:24:41,510 --> 01:24:39,690
true and here's why the materials that

1768
01:24:44,330 --> 01:24:41,520
they describe the largest piece that was

1769
01:24:46,729 --> 01:24:44,340
picked up outside Roswell was about 2

1770
01:24:49,100 --> 01:24:46,739
foot long easily you could put that in a

1771
01:24:51,320 --> 01:24:49,110
briefcase and and anyone who handled

1772
01:24:53,990 --> 01:24:51,330
that said that was the biggest piece we

1773
01:24:55,850 --> 01:24:54,000
found most of it was maybe 2 inches by 3

1774
01:24:57,980 --> 01:24:55,860
in chess so the way it would have gone

1775
01:25:00,560 --> 01:24:57,990
down is somebody would have put several

1776
01:25:02,660 --> 01:25:00,570
pieces in a briefcase they would have

1777
01:25:05,210 --> 01:25:02,670
brought it to the headquarters of the

1778
01:25:07,700 --> 01:25:05,220
materials lab they would have said you

1779
01:25:10,610 --> 01:25:07,710
know we're from this agency here's some

1780
01:25:12,920 --> 01:25:10,620
money here's the materials we want you

1781
01:25:14,990 --> 01:25:12,930
to look at and we're gonna come back in

1782
01:25:17,180 --> 01:25:15,000
six or eight weeks you tell us when we

1783
01:25:19,040 --> 01:25:17,190
can come back and we want you to write

1784
01:25:21,080 --> 01:25:19,050
us a report and everything you can tell

1785
01:25:22,730 --> 01:25:21,090
us about this material do you know where

1786
01:25:24,860 --> 01:25:22,740
it could have been manufactured

1787
01:25:26,900 --> 01:25:24,870
what kind of metals or fabrics that it

1788
01:25:27,860 --> 01:25:26,910
was made out of just soup to not you

1789
01:25:30,260 --> 01:25:27,870
tell us about it

1790
01:25:33,050 --> 01:25:30,270
those guys in the black suits would have

1791
01:25:34,790 --> 01:25:33,060
come back several weeks later they would

1792
01:25:36,800 --> 01:25:34,800
have gotten any of the pieces that

1793
01:25:39,650 --> 01:25:36,810
weren't destroyed in a testing we

1794
01:25:43,100 --> 01:25:39,660
collected them gotten a report paid the

1795
01:25:44,930 --> 01:25:43,110
the lab for their time and said this is

1796
01:25:47,090 --> 01:25:44,940
the classified top secret thank you

1797
01:25:51,560 --> 01:25:47,100
you're never allowed to talk about it

1798
01:25:59,210 --> 01:25:51,570
again so you really don't need a hangar

1799
01:26:02,870 --> 01:25:59,220
18 for the story to be true but since

1800
01:26:07,490 --> 01:26:02,880
you called in since you called in I will

1801
01:26:11,660 --> 01:26:07,500
tell you the building that I think is

1802
01:26:18,920 --> 01:26:11,670
hangar 18 if there was one how's that

1803
01:26:20,300 --> 01:26:18,930
for a deal okay okay what one day I was

1804
01:26:25,100 --> 01:26:20,310
looking at a wright-patterson Air Force

1805
01:26:26,780 --> 01:26:25,110
Base map and I was looking at at north

1806
01:26:29,690 --> 01:26:26,790
to south east to west and it was

1807
01:26:32,180 --> 01:26:29,700
properly positioned on my table and

1808
01:26:34,520 --> 01:26:32,190
there was a big hangar there that at one

1809
01:26:41,300 --> 01:26:34,530
time was a temporary hangar for the Air

1810
01:26:43,850 --> 01:26:41,310
Force Museum and it also houses about a

1811
01:26:46,190 --> 01:26:43,860
million square feet of Air Force Museum

1812
01:26:47,990 --> 01:26:46,200
stuff it's it's it's where they store

1813
01:26:49,960 --> 01:26:48,000
things that are being worked on which

1814
01:26:53,900 --> 01:26:49,970
will eventually make it into the museum

1815
01:26:58,130 --> 01:26:53,910
well I happen to turn the map around and

1816
01:27:04,340 --> 01:26:58,140
I realized that I was now looking at

1817
01:27:05,810 --> 01:27:04,350
before I was looking at buildings 8 1 9

1818
01:27:10,160 --> 01:27:05,820
and 2

1819
01:27:14,060 --> 01:27:10,170
and when I turned the map around one of

1820
01:27:17,810 --> 01:27:14,070
the hangars was no longer designated as

1821
01:27:23,810 --> 01:27:17,820
a t1 it was designated as hangar 18 on

1822
01:27:26,780 --> 01:27:23,820
the map so that was on the old flight

1823
01:27:30,170 --> 01:27:26,790
line and if the material was flowing

1824
01:27:33,470 --> 01:27:30,180
from the 8th Army Air Corps that Corps

1825
01:27:36,320 --> 01:27:33,480
in 1947 to wright-patterson it would

1826
01:27:38,570 --> 01:27:36,330
have flown into area B and that hangar

1827
01:27:41,750 --> 01:27:38,580
would have been one of the hangars one

1828
01:27:43,640 --> 01:27:41,760
of the best hangars for that bomber the

1829
01:27:45,830 --> 01:27:43,650
B 28 or 18 or whatever it was that

1830
01:27:49,850 --> 01:27:45,840
brought the goods in to just drive right

1831
01:27:52,160 --> 01:27:49,860
in so if there had to be a hangar 18 I

1832
01:27:55,720 --> 01:27:52,170
know what's building it would be but I

1833
01:27:58,970 --> 01:27:55,730
don't think it's necessary about that

1834
01:28:02,330 --> 01:27:58,980
yeah they um I think the significance of

1835
01:28:04,750 --> 01:28:02,340
18 and it was the fact that it turned

1836
01:28:07,850 --> 01:28:04,760
out years later one of the rumors about

1837
01:28:09,560 --> 01:28:07,860
building 18 or hangar 18 was that it was

1838
01:28:11,810 --> 01:28:09,570
storing bodies and you know a lot of

1839
01:28:14,990 --> 01:28:11,820
people scoffed at it you know and but it

1840
01:28:19,100 --> 01:28:15,000
turned out years later that there

1841
01:28:21,170 --> 01:28:19,110
actually were freezing chambers in there

1842
01:28:23,330 --> 01:28:21,180
and the building manager said it was the

1843
01:28:26,630 --> 01:28:23,340
test components for cold start up and

1844
01:28:27,950 --> 01:28:26,640
things like that but that was I always

1845
01:28:30,200 --> 01:28:27,960
thought that was kind of interesting but

1846
01:28:31,850 --> 01:28:30,210
yeah I don't know that I buy any of that

1847
01:28:33,860 --> 01:28:31,860
but I always thought that was kind of

1848
01:28:36,950 --> 01:28:33,870
interested turnout there were there were

1849
01:28:38,240 --> 01:28:36,960
freezing chambers in hangar 18 you don't

1850
01:28:40,160 --> 01:28:38,250
you do have that you do have the right

1851
01:28:46,190 --> 01:28:40,170
history but you have the building wrong

1852
01:28:48,680 --> 01:28:46,200
see there's building 18 a B C D and E

1853
01:28:51,050 --> 01:28:48,690
and in the middle of those building 18

1854
01:28:54,830 --> 01:28:51,060
complex which is owned by the propulsion

1855
01:28:59,360 --> 01:28:54,840
Directorate is a hangar and that hangar

1856
01:29:02,060 --> 01:28:59,370
is numbered 23 so despite the fact that

1857
01:29:05,030 --> 01:29:02,070
the only hangar in that group is in the

1858
01:29:07,910 --> 01:29:05,040
middle of it it's always been building

1859
01:29:10,310 --> 01:29:07,920
23 or hanger 23 yeah that's surrounded

1860
01:29:12,380 --> 01:29:10,320
by five buildings that have a building

1861
01:29:14,510 --> 01:29:12,390
18 designation and that's where the

1862
01:29:18,260 --> 01:29:14,520
confusion comes in but you're right that

1863
01:29:19,460 --> 01:29:18,270
building 23 did have those cryo tanks in

1864
01:29:23,540 --> 01:29:19,470
order to freeze

1865
01:29:26,720 --> 01:29:23,550
opponents you're absolutely correct hey

1866
01:29:30,190 --> 01:29:26,730
Ryan actually Ryan don't like it don't

1867
01:29:32,810 --> 01:29:30,200
don't go yet Ryan because everyone has

1868
01:29:35,360 --> 01:29:32,820
you know a right to their opinion so I'd

1869
01:29:36,770 --> 01:29:35,370
like to hear what you were what your

1870
01:29:39,980 --> 01:29:36,780
thoughts are on Travis Walton you

1871
01:29:44,990 --> 01:29:39,990
mentioned something about him don't be

1872
01:29:49,460 --> 01:29:45,000
shy oh by the way before I get into

1873
01:29:52,750 --> 01:29:49,470
Travis let me see um it was 18f at least

1874
01:29:55,520 --> 01:29:52,760
that I had heard it about but anyway

1875
01:29:58,040 --> 01:29:55,530
actually the this this building appeared

1876
01:30:01,460 --> 01:29:58,050
in the classic episode of in search of

1877
01:30:04,850 --> 01:30:01,470
called UFO cover-ups in 1980 anyway

1878
01:30:12,160 --> 01:30:04,860
moving on the Travis Walton I you know

1879
01:30:15,710 --> 01:30:12,170
you know I I don't God how do I put this

1880
01:30:18,110 --> 01:30:15,720
Travis um he seems sincere he has a lot

1881
01:30:22,250 --> 01:30:18,120
of witnesses and everything but I had

1882
01:30:24,680 --> 01:30:22,260
the same issue with this UFO story that

1883
01:30:26,810 --> 01:30:24,690
I have with pretty much all the UFO

1884
01:30:28,580 --> 01:30:26,820
stories and I'm sure you know someone

1885
01:30:31,550 --> 01:30:28,590
can say technologies the answer I

1886
01:30:33,860 --> 01:30:31,560
understand that the issue I have is they

1887
01:30:37,040 --> 01:30:33,870
get kidnapped they get taken aboard the

1888
01:30:39,260 --> 01:30:37,050
craft they can breathe these aliens air

1889
01:30:41,780 --> 01:30:39,270
they handle their atmospheric pressure

1890
01:30:43,580 --> 01:30:41,790
they say their ears they don't even say

1891
01:30:46,220 --> 01:30:43,590
their ears pop when they're taken aboard

1892
01:30:48,260 --> 01:30:46,230
these crafts they notice no difference

1893
01:30:50,960 --> 01:30:48,270
in gravity I mean it's almost like

1894
01:30:53,330 --> 01:30:50,970
wherever these aliens are from they had

1895
01:30:56,180 --> 01:30:53,340
the exact same condition deserve and

1896
01:30:57,950 --> 01:30:56,190
I've always found that a little hard to

1897
01:31:01,010 --> 01:30:57,960
swallow and I'm sure someone can come up

1898
01:31:02,390 --> 01:31:01,020
with some kind of technology explanation

1899
01:31:05,450 --> 01:31:02,400
you know the aliens put some kind of

1900
01:31:08,060 --> 01:31:05,460
invisible you know suit around them or

1901
01:31:10,940 --> 01:31:08,070
something like that but at that to me

1902
01:31:13,580 --> 01:31:10,950
that has been the hardest thing of to

1903
01:31:15,890 --> 01:31:13,590
swallow and all these stories because I

1904
01:31:18,200 --> 01:31:15,900
mean you go up on a plane here on earth

1905
01:31:19,730 --> 01:31:18,210
in your ears pop I mean when the

1906
01:31:22,280 --> 01:31:19,740
astronauts for example went to the moon

1907
01:31:23,960 --> 01:31:22,290
they of course were wearing just endless

1908
01:31:26,270 --> 01:31:23,970
amounts of protective gear otherwise

1909
01:31:28,880 --> 01:31:26,280
their heads would have blown up anyway

1910
01:31:31,700 --> 01:31:28,890
that's that's just my two cents on those

1911
01:31:33,379 --> 01:31:31,710
abductions well I I find that

1912
01:31:36,679 --> 01:31:33,389
interesting because I have thought

1913
01:31:39,709 --> 01:31:36,689
of that as well Ryan and I've also

1914
01:31:43,370 --> 01:31:39,719
thought of you know how can these beings

1915
01:31:45,589 --> 01:31:43,380
you know be here on this planet you know

1916
01:31:48,219 --> 01:31:45,599
for here's a good case we have a virus

1917
01:31:50,689 --> 01:31:48,229
now but I mean they could contact

1918
01:31:52,189 --> 01:31:50,699
anything that we have here you know I

1919
01:31:53,719 --> 01:31:52,199
mean that that's the type of things that

1920
01:31:56,209 --> 01:31:53,729
I have thought of so I don't think

1921
01:31:57,560 --> 01:31:56,219
that's a silly thing to to question I

1922
01:32:00,500 --> 01:31:57,570
think that's you know that's a good

1923
01:32:02,209 --> 01:32:00,510
point with them it's a bit more

1924
01:32:04,310 --> 01:32:02,219
believable because you know they could

1925
01:32:06,649 --> 01:32:04,320
have you know some sort of they could be

1926
01:32:08,899 --> 01:32:06,659
wearing some kind of invisible magnetic

1927
01:32:11,419 --> 01:32:08,909
field or some kind of some kind of

1928
01:32:13,189 --> 01:32:11,429
technology on their own their belts or

1929
01:32:17,330 --> 01:32:13,199
something or some kind of suit we can't

1930
01:32:19,729 --> 01:32:17,340
see or any anything else but the the the

1931
01:32:23,629 --> 01:32:19,739
human being taken aboard that's the hard

1932
01:32:25,790 --> 01:32:23,639
part to swallow all right well maybe

1933
01:32:27,679 --> 01:32:25,800
there is an answer I mean there's a

1934
01:32:27,889 --> 01:32:27,689
there is an answer but what the answer

1935
01:32:31,270 --> 01:32:27,899
is

1936
01:32:33,859 --> 01:32:31,280
I have no clue and I can't I can't say

1937
01:32:36,319 --> 01:32:33,869
you know what you're saying is is silly

1938
01:32:38,419 --> 01:32:36,329
or by any means I think it's an

1939
01:32:43,069 --> 01:32:38,429
interesting and a very good point so I

1940
01:32:44,449 --> 01:32:43,079
do appreciate it Ryan and yeah all right

1941
01:32:46,850 --> 01:32:44,459
have a good night we have another caller

1942
01:32:51,109 --> 01:32:46,860
so talk to you later Ryan thanks for the

1943
01:32:53,810 --> 01:32:51,119
call all right our next caller is Steve

1944
01:33:00,259 --> 01:32:53,820
from Washington Steve welcome to the

1945
01:33:02,419 --> 01:33:00,269
show hey guys hi one question I've heard

1946
01:33:04,819 --> 01:33:02,429
over the years that Wright Patterson did

1947
01:33:06,639 --> 01:33:04,829
a lot of reverse engineering is that

1948
01:33:09,139 --> 01:33:06,649
true is there a group at

1949
01:33:10,459 --> 01:33:09,149
wright-patterson that had done reverse

1950
01:33:13,040 --> 01:33:10,469
engineering every time they get a

1951
01:33:17,419 --> 01:33:13,050
Russian plane or any other kind of

1952
01:33:20,919 --> 01:33:17,429
technology absolutely absolutely you

1953
01:33:23,060 --> 01:33:20,929
know I worked in the labs and you know

1954
01:33:25,879 --> 01:33:23,070
for many years the foreign technology

1955
01:33:30,520 --> 01:33:25,889
division they're now called Masek

1956
01:33:32,659 --> 01:33:30,530
they did not have much of a native

1957
01:33:35,060 --> 01:33:32,669
capability to do the research what they

1958
01:33:36,889 --> 01:33:35,070
would do is they'd say okay you know we

1959
01:33:38,719 --> 01:33:36,899
we picked up a piece of metal we don't

1960
01:33:41,270 --> 01:33:38,729
know what it is we're going to give it

1961
01:33:44,750 --> 01:33:41,280
to the materials Directorate and and so

1962
01:33:46,759 --> 01:33:44,760
they give it to the lab experts they you

1963
01:33:47,130 --> 01:33:46,769
know find a piece of propulsion they all

1964
01:33:49,560 --> 01:33:47,140
out

1965
01:33:52,380 --> 01:33:49,570
give it to the propulsion lab so they

1966
01:33:54,240 --> 01:33:52,390
have thousands of experts just within

1967
01:33:56,100 --> 01:33:54,250
the air force lab then you got the Navy

1968
01:33:58,080 --> 01:33:56,110
labs and army labs and you have

1969
01:33:59,640 --> 01:33:58,090
contractors that you could just give

1970
01:34:02,100 --> 01:33:59,650
whatever it is you found and have them

1971
01:34:04,740 --> 01:34:02,110
examine it so absolutely you know

1972
01:34:12,480 --> 01:34:04,750
they've done reverse engineering from

1973
01:34:15,180 --> 01:34:12,490
day one but that's the story with

1974
01:34:16,500 --> 01:34:15,190
Roswell the stuff would could Dallas and

1975
01:34:21,450 --> 01:34:16,510
then went to right that could be

1976
01:34:23,670 --> 01:34:21,460
reversed engineered isn't that the

1977
01:34:26,880 --> 01:34:23,680
foreign technology divisions charter is

1978
01:34:29,160 --> 01:34:26,890
anything that is in the sky that we need

1979
01:34:31,500 --> 01:34:29,170
to know more about we need to get a copy

1980
01:34:33,570 --> 01:34:31,510
of it and then once we get a copy of it

1981
01:34:37,470 --> 01:34:33,580
we need to understand it like how to

1982
01:34:39,660 --> 01:34:37,480
defeat it how to defend it how to use

1983
01:34:41,190 --> 01:34:39,670
some of the technology that that we

1984
01:34:43,860 --> 01:34:41,200
don't have and put it on ours how to

1985
01:34:47,160 --> 01:34:43,870
exploit it so yes they're always doing

1986
01:34:49,470 --> 01:34:47,170
reverse engineering I'm sure of every

1987
01:34:54,180 --> 01:34:49,480
aircraft that's not ours including those

1988
01:34:56,430 --> 01:34:54,190
that are off planet yeah interesting is

1989
01:34:59,940 --> 01:34:56,440
that should not be a secret is that it

1990
01:35:02,940 --> 01:34:59,950
Steve okay well one of the things you

1991
01:35:05,070 --> 01:35:02,950
yeah I just you flashed over the Phoenix

1992
01:35:08,070 --> 01:35:05,080
lights and you seem to scoff at the

1993
01:35:10,560 --> 01:35:08,080
flares and I'm just curious the earth is

1994
01:35:12,330 --> 01:35:10,570
that your view that that there were no

1995
01:35:15,240 --> 01:35:12,340
flares on the night of the Phoenix life

1996
01:35:18,930 --> 01:35:15,250
event yeah it's like Martin and I

1997
01:35:23,220 --> 01:35:18,940
discussed there are too many events to

1998
01:35:26,160 --> 01:35:23,230
be explained and maybe one video of

1999
01:35:27,690 --> 01:35:26,170
somebody who was videoing the flares the

2000
01:35:33,140 --> 01:35:27,700
flares would explain it but the fact

2001
01:35:37,290 --> 01:35:33,150
that this three mile wide v-shaped craft

2002
01:35:39,840 --> 01:35:37,300
was going over you know a hundred mile

2003
01:35:42,390 --> 01:35:39,850
run north to south and then south the

2004
01:35:44,970 --> 01:35:42,400
North seen by tens of thousands of

2005
01:35:47,970 --> 01:35:44,980
people could not be explained by a

2006
01:35:50,970 --> 01:35:47,980
simple dropping flares and even that was

2007
01:35:54,660 --> 01:35:50,980
weak because when when they did the

2008
01:35:57,720 --> 01:35:54,670
analysis of a flares versus what was

2009
01:36:00,600 --> 01:35:57,730
captured on video the light signatures

2010
01:36:02,459 --> 01:36:00,610
were not the same so it's just too

2011
01:36:04,979 --> 01:36:02,469
week of an excuse the flares can

2012
01:36:08,459 --> 01:36:04,989
basically explain like three minutes

2013
01:36:11,359 --> 01:36:08,469
and that leaves like one hour and 58

2014
01:36:14,729 --> 01:36:11,369
minutes of sighting yet to be explained

2015
01:36:16,530 --> 01:36:14,739
yeah I agree well yeah Phoenix place

2016
01:36:19,020 --> 01:36:16,540
event into two parts

2017
01:36:22,020 --> 01:36:19,030
there's the 8:30 event and then there's

2018
01:36:24,419 --> 01:36:22,030
the after 10 o'clock event where the the

2019
01:36:27,149 --> 01:36:24,429
military went out and dropped a big

2020
01:36:29,250 --> 01:36:27,159
array of flares and arrayed the size

2021
01:36:31,530 --> 01:36:29,260
that Phoenix had never seen before

2022
01:36:35,100 --> 01:36:31,540
that's why the local story was so big

2023
01:36:37,530 --> 01:36:35,110
and that that 10 o'clock flare drop was

2024
01:36:39,840 --> 01:36:37,540
captured by 5 different cameras around

2025
01:36:41,970 --> 01:36:39,850
the valley and that's what made the news

2026
01:36:44,189 --> 01:36:41,980
all over the place all over the world

2027
01:36:47,609 --> 01:36:44,199
yeah a lot of the rocks you see are the

2028
01:36:49,410 --> 01:36:47,619
flares now now the flare the flares yeah

2029
01:36:52,260 --> 01:36:49,420
they might have made the news but there

2030
01:36:55,399 --> 01:36:52,270
were dozens of other videos taking that

2031
01:37:00,209 --> 01:36:55,409
also made the new so again you know

2032
01:37:03,149 --> 01:37:00,219
flare stayed up for like two minutes ok

2033
01:37:08,970 --> 01:37:03,159
so they would have to have 60 flare

2034
01:37:11,070 --> 01:37:08,980
drops ok 60 separate passes there was

2035
01:37:13,410 --> 01:37:11,080
one flare job you've got two minutes of

2036
01:37:17,300 --> 01:37:13,420
coverage explained the other hour and 58

2037
01:37:20,040 --> 01:37:17,310
minutes I disagree with you vehemently

2038
01:37:22,919 --> 01:37:20,050
right but if you watch I know what I saw

2039
01:37:26,129 --> 01:37:22,929
there is the actual video of the real

2040
01:37:29,609 --> 01:37:26,139
craft that went over yes thirty that

2041
01:37:32,280 --> 01:37:29,619
night okay that's the only real video

2042
01:37:35,209 --> 01:37:32,290
all the other videos are flare drops

2043
01:37:37,530 --> 01:37:35,219
that took place after dinner well I've

2044
01:37:39,390 --> 01:37:37,540
I've actually heard the same thing from

2045
01:37:41,910 --> 01:37:39,400
a number of people that have really

2046
01:37:42,600 --> 01:37:41,920
looked into this I don't know but I have

2047
01:37:45,240 --> 01:37:42,610
her yet

2048
01:37:48,120 --> 01:37:45,250
I've have heard that Steve you're not

2049
01:37:50,850 --> 01:37:48,130
the only one saying that and I know

2050
01:37:54,899 --> 01:37:50,860
they're saying Dart you know some people

2051
01:37:57,030 --> 01:37:54,909
have said dr. Lynn cut ice a video is

2052
01:38:00,240 --> 01:37:57,040
the flares I don't really know I don't

2053
01:38:02,430 --> 01:38:00,250
want to say you know cuz she's but I

2054
01:38:04,620 --> 01:38:02,440
don't know but I think it's time to move

2055
01:38:08,879 --> 01:38:04,630
on we have another caller thank you very

2056
01:38:11,910 --> 01:38:08,889
much for the call Steve and we have

2057
01:38:14,030 --> 01:38:11,920
Shane Shane is calling from Kentucky hi

2058
01:38:16,890 --> 01:38:14,040
Shane welcome to the show

2059
01:38:20,189 --> 01:38:16,900
hello Martin thank you for taking the

2060
01:38:23,040 --> 01:38:20,199
call I would like to ask your guests I

2061
01:38:27,810 --> 01:38:23,050
think he said that she lives in Ohio is

2062
01:38:30,209 --> 01:38:27,820
that correct yes I was just wondering if

2063
01:38:33,080 --> 01:38:30,219
you had ever investigated or just what

2064
01:38:38,520 --> 01:38:33,090
your thoughts are on the Lawrence coin

2065
01:38:42,660 --> 01:38:38,530
case in 1973 oh yeah which case is it

2066
01:38:49,830 --> 01:38:42,670
the coin helicopter case oh yes it is

2067
01:38:51,689 --> 01:38:49,840
the one up near Akron yeah yeah yes my

2068
01:38:55,500 --> 01:38:51,699
son lived up there for a couple of years

2069
01:38:57,720 --> 01:38:55,510
I tried to find some witnesses I tried

2070
01:39:00,570 --> 01:38:57,730
to get some people from the National

2071
01:39:01,979 --> 01:39:00,580
Guard to come forward I really because I

2072
01:39:04,110 --> 01:39:01,989
was only up there for like a couple days

2073
01:39:08,220 --> 01:39:04,120
at a time and I had family thanks I

2074
01:39:10,050 --> 01:39:08,230
really didn't break any new ground I

2075
01:39:11,820 --> 01:39:10,060
really have nothing to report but I

2076
01:39:16,410 --> 01:39:11,830
think that's a pretty you know

2077
01:39:20,640 --> 01:39:16,420
compelling story with you know a guy who

2078
01:39:23,939 --> 01:39:20,650
knows his career is done as soon as he

2079
01:39:25,770 --> 01:39:23,949
tells that story yeah it soon as you

2080
01:39:28,200 --> 01:39:25,780
know you're a pilot and you're saying I

2081
01:39:30,330 --> 01:39:28,210
lost control of my copter it flew up two

2082
01:39:33,180 --> 01:39:30,340
miles and you know we retract there

2083
01:39:35,220 --> 01:39:33,190
being in this light was coming any pilot

2084
01:39:36,689 --> 01:39:35,230
commercial military will tell you the

2085
01:39:39,510 --> 01:39:36,699
minute you come forward with a story

2086
01:39:41,310 --> 01:39:39,520
like that you're flying a desk so I

2087
01:39:44,160 --> 01:39:41,320
think just from that standpoint and the

2088
01:39:46,470 --> 01:39:44,170
fact that the whole crew you know their

2089
01:39:49,050 --> 01:39:46,480
stories were consistent to me it makes

2090
01:39:51,689 --> 01:39:49,060
it a pretty strong case but I don't have

2091
01:39:53,910 --> 01:39:51,699
any any unique insider you know I I

2092
01:39:58,140 --> 01:39:53,920
didn't really find out anything I could

2093
01:40:00,990 --> 01:39:58,150
add to that any okay anything else I

2094
01:40:04,170 --> 01:40:01,000
think it's a very reliable case

2095
01:40:07,080 --> 01:40:04,180
No all right all right thanks for the

2096
01:40:09,450 --> 01:40:07,090
call all right so we've got about five

2097
01:40:12,660 --> 01:40:09,460
five or so minutes left to the show four

2098
01:40:15,060 --> 01:40:12,670
minutes I guess so let's jump quickly

2099
01:40:18,600 --> 01:40:15,070
into the last story that you looked

2100
01:40:20,760 --> 01:40:18,610
deeply into and on the when you and I

2101
01:40:23,010 --> 01:40:20,770
were off air I told you my thoughts

2102
01:40:24,810 --> 01:40:23,020
right off the bat is I think Rendlesham

2103
01:40:27,510 --> 01:40:24,820
forest is a very convoluted story

2104
01:40:30,180 --> 01:40:27,520
there's a lot of twists and turns

2105
01:40:32,070 --> 01:40:30,190
and you know different accounts what did

2106
01:40:33,660 --> 01:40:32,080
you find when you were looking again

2107
01:40:35,880 --> 01:40:33,670
you're looking into these particular

2108
01:40:39,570 --> 01:40:35,890
stories as a debunker trying to debunk

2109
01:40:41,420 --> 01:40:39,580
them and in a four minute session what

2110
01:40:43,950 --> 01:40:41,430
can you tell us about Rendlesham forest

2111
01:40:46,200 --> 01:40:43,960
well I contacted some of the key

2112
01:40:48,990 --> 01:40:46,210
witnesses Colonel Hall John burrows and

2113
01:40:51,840 --> 01:40:49,000
Jim Penniston I also went to Rendlesham

2114
01:40:53,790 --> 01:40:51,850
I did my look around I wanted to follow

2115
01:40:56,790 --> 01:40:53,800
their footsteps so I read everything I

2116
01:40:59,010 --> 01:40:56,800
could and then I went forward and I

2117
01:41:00,900 --> 01:40:59,020
tried to find the locations where they

2118
01:41:03,150 --> 01:41:00,910
were I took a lot of photographs I

2119
01:41:04,770 --> 01:41:03,160
talked to some local people who had a

2120
01:41:08,220 --> 01:41:04,780
little bit of knowledge but again I

2121
01:41:11,070 --> 01:41:08,230
didn't get a satisfactory response like

2122
01:41:13,710 --> 01:41:11,080
I did when I I did Exeter when I found

2123
01:41:17,010 --> 01:41:13,720
real witnesses so I contacted Colonel

2124
01:41:19,470 --> 01:41:17,020
halt I met with him in person I met with

2125
01:41:22,080 --> 01:41:19,480
John Burroughs and I've had some really

2126
01:41:24,960 --> 01:41:22,090
good exchanges with Jim Penniston and so

2127
01:41:27,540 --> 01:41:24,970
I can tell you that based upon all those

2128
01:41:32,940 --> 01:41:27,550
interactions I also think that's a

2129
01:41:36,410 --> 01:41:32,950
top-three case I am delighted with Jim

2130
01:41:39,540 --> 01:41:36,420
peniston's new book and I am because

2131
01:41:43,140 --> 01:41:39,550
he's a guy who was in the middle of it

2132
01:41:45,360 --> 01:41:43,150
he touched the device he felt it he drew

2133
01:41:48,270 --> 01:41:45,370
it he photographed it he was there with

2134
01:41:50,730 --> 01:41:48,280
John Burroughs everybody knows that he

2135
01:41:52,950 --> 01:41:50,740
was the guy that went forward you know

2136
01:41:55,380 --> 01:41:52,960
unlike Larry Warren who's a bit

2137
01:41:57,870 --> 01:41:55,390
controversial whom nobody can remember

2138
01:42:00,180 --> 01:41:57,880
being out in the field maybe boost Enza

2139
01:42:03,420 --> 01:42:00,190
is the exception but nobody can remember

2140
01:42:05,970 --> 01:42:03,430
him and you know you saw that fall out

2141
01:42:08,700 --> 01:42:05,980
you know with him being disavowed by his

2142
01:42:10,770 --> 01:42:08,710
author and everybody so I've had good

2143
01:42:13,110 --> 01:42:10,780
exchanges with Jim and he's been very

2144
01:42:14,970 --> 01:42:13,120
open with me and in fact he and I had

2145
01:42:19,140 --> 01:42:14,980
planned to get together at contact and

2146
01:42:23,730 --> 01:42:19,150
sit down and have a chat but I find his

2147
01:42:26,330 --> 01:42:23,740
book insightful compelling it is the

2148
01:42:30,600 --> 01:42:26,340
definitive book on Rendlesham forest and

2149
01:42:34,920 --> 01:42:30,610
don't just read the paragraphs you know

2150
01:42:38,940 --> 01:42:34,930
the story read the footnotes they are

2151
01:42:40,890 --> 01:42:38,950
probably more informative to the reader

2152
01:42:41,310 --> 01:42:40,900
than the general story you'll get the

2153
01:42:44,069 --> 01:42:41,320
general

2154
01:42:46,830 --> 01:42:44,079
story and you get all the factoids go to

2155
01:42:48,899 --> 01:42:46,840
footnotes and so Jim and I we still I

2156
01:42:49,859 --> 01:42:48,909
asked them some questions just about a

2157
01:42:51,839 --> 01:42:49,869
week ago

2158
01:42:55,100 --> 01:42:51,849
you know we message on Facebook and

2159
01:42:58,589 --> 01:42:55,110
stuff I just found out to be a

2160
01:43:00,689 --> 01:42:58,599
rock-solid case that's being told by

2161
01:43:02,850 --> 01:43:00,699
some very rock-solid people and you

2162
01:43:04,760 --> 01:43:02,860
don't need the regressions that they

2163
01:43:07,770 --> 01:43:04,770
took which of course are corroborated

2164
01:43:09,510 --> 01:43:07,780
but they've been very consistent and

2165
01:43:11,339 --> 01:43:09,520
they're not afraid to be competitive

2166
01:43:13,169 --> 01:43:11,349
with each other over the facts until

2167
01:43:16,319 --> 01:43:13,179
that's right they come to some agreement

2168
01:43:18,899 --> 01:43:16,329
so I think that's a strength to yeah

2169
01:43:22,319 --> 01:43:18,909
ya know I find I find all their stories

2170
01:43:25,470 --> 01:43:22,329
very interesting and you know just that

2171
01:43:29,040 --> 01:43:25,480
there are some you know different

2172
01:43:31,020 --> 01:43:29,050
stories you know but I know they were

2173
01:43:34,260 --> 01:43:31,030
also messed with you know during their

2174
01:43:35,819 --> 01:43:34,270
debriefings you know drugged and such so

2175
01:43:38,640 --> 01:43:35,829
we are at the end of the show thank you

2176
01:43:42,300 --> 01:43:38,650
so much I really appreciate it it was a

2177
01:43:43,589 --> 01:43:42,310
pleasure talking to you tonight thank

2178
01:43:44,399 --> 01:43:43,599
you thanks for having me on yourself

2179
01:43:47,370 --> 01:43:44,409
alright

2180
01:43:51,450 --> 01:43:47,380
okay everyone so that's it for the show

2181
01:43:54,450 --> 01:43:51,460
tonight and so thank you so much for for

2182
01:44:01,169 --> 01:43:54,460
checking us out and remember to be back

2183
01:44:05,910 --> 01:44:01,179
next week our guest is our guest is PJ

2184
01:44:07,680 --> 01:44:05,920
hues of the Nimitz case so make sure you

2185
01:44:11,970 --> 01:44:07,690
come back and check that out at the same

2186
01:44:13,700 --> 01:44:11,980
time as always and I want to thank

2187
01:44:15,209 --> 01:44:13,710
everyone that helps out with the show

2188
01:44:18,510 --> 01:44:15,219
anyone can do that

2189
01:44:22,140 --> 01:44:18,520
and over at patreon we are and guess

2190
01:44:24,870 --> 01:44:22,150
what next week is our 400th show yes

2191
01:44:26,850 --> 01:44:24,880
our 400th show so I guess I'll have to

2192
01:44:29,819 --> 01:44:26,860
give away a t-shirt or something but

2193
01:44:32,280 --> 01:44:29,829
anyone but everyone I want to say thanks

2194
01:44:39,550 --> 01:44:32,290
again and remember to keep your eyes to